Talk:County

Historical perspective

The article is very brief about counties in medieval times (and also in Early Modern times, especially in the Holy Roman Empire) when counties rather were nearly-independent territories under the rulership of a count, see e.g. County of Holland, County of Toulouse, County of Barcelona, and the article does not say anything about how these medieval counties developed into the modern administrative term. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:03, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Old remark but still true. I don't see any other articles specifically about the historical evolution of counties either.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 10:32, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

The article lede sort of explains this matter, but it could perhaps be written more clearly. Basically, the short version is this: modern counties have no direct relationship to the mainland European medievsl counties. The word "county" was basically just borrowed into English from the mainland invaders, and began being used as a new term for the 'shires' that already existed in England. Thus, modern 'counties' came from 'shires' rather than from that which were originally called counties. 2600:1702:4960:1DE0:5D57:A2A:70F7:A033 (talk) 04:37, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

Confusing tag

I removed the {{confusing}} template on the page because I did not understand what it was saying. If it's going to be reinstated, please make it more clear. Regards, MediaKill13 (talk) 08:26, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on County. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20040421135513/http://lwvma.org:80/govcounty.shtml to http://lwvma.org/govcounty.shtml

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 14:53, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

County = Okrug

There are two exactly same terms here on EN Wiki: This Latin County and Slavic Okrug. Should we merge these two? --Munja (talk) 21:03, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

Canada

"Canada's five oldest provinces – New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Ontario, Quebec and Prince Edward Island – are divided into counties." I removed the above. PEI is not one of Canada's five oldest provinces. It's seventh to join Canada. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shipman7 (talk • contribs) 02:16, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

@Shipman7: if that is the case, why wouldn't you simply revise it to state the following?

"Five of Canada's provinces – New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Ontario, Quebec and Prince Edward Island – are divided into counties."

Hwy43 (talk) 02:20, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

County Council in Australia

The entry on 'county' in Australia appears to be incorrect. The term 'county council' appears to still be current as at http://hrcc.nsw.gov.au. If this is not the same as a 'county', fine, but something needs to be noted about this usage.

59.153.112.77 (talk) 01:40, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

English

the success of the country depends on it people essey 250 words 105.245.175.211 (talk) 06:35, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

"Cunty" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Cunty has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 July 24 § Cunty until a consensus is reached. SmokeSomeDrinkSomePopOne (talk) 15:14, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

is "and other purposes" vague?

What are "other" purposes? Political? Can we not be more concise about the county in the articles opener?

The credited source is the Chambers Dictionary, pub. 2005, now with an online edition where one can see that a entry for "county" is not so vague as perhaps it was in a 2005 print edition. We see that in both England and USA the purpose is administrative. And if used in another sense (in U.K.), an area of particular characteristics.

"county noun (counties) 1 any of the geographical divisions within England, Wales and Ireland that form the larger units of local government. Compare region (sense 2). 2 in the USA: the main administrative subdivision within a state. adj, derog, informal upper class; pertaining to the landed gentry.

ETYMOLOGY: 15c: from French conté, from Latin comes count."

It may have had a count and countess/courts and magistrates, with jurisdiction over the area/territory relating to governance. It may be a government unit empowered by corporate person-hood. It may be a state or sub-state administrative unit. PonapsqisHous (talk) 00:10, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

What about the so called ceremonial and/or traditional counties that no longer have an administrative purpose, but can for example still be used to address an envelope?--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 06:35, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Good question. So what about them, say if legacy purpose is as a geographic identifier? if it's at all a matter of whether a territory has an administrative or political sort of purpose for it not to be a former county, perhaps since there's a current county, or another form of sub-state administration, should there be "other" purposes at all?

In the matter of whether a "ceremonial", or "traditional county" falls withing the meaning of the word, the Chambers online definition I've posted doesn't support it, suggesting administrative jurisdiction/holding power are central to the meaning. Sense 2 of "region"'s def is an administrative unit in Scotland during a time period. PonapsqisHous (talk) 18:42, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

I can't follow.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 18:56, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Don't bother; the editor you're replying to is trying to win an argument he lost elsewhere about whether counties cease to exist if one of their functions ceases, in this case their function as a municipality, regardless of whether they still exist in law. G. Timothy Walton

There was even an RfC about the question. (talk) 20:06, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

What about them? The modifiers "ceremonial", "traditional", etc. are there for a purpose and these do not warrant consideration in the defining passage of an encyclopedic entry about counties, like in the dictionary, perhaps.

There is no expectations on who will and who will not follow, and a request for comment remains.

Having been given attention here by @G. Timothy Walton, it can be seen at the linked RfC and in related NB, Canada article local discussions about disestablished counties, that dated legislation (see County: New Brunswick) is sufficient to forcefully contend that "counties remain in use", when it is the territorial divisions (areas) that truly remain. The discussion about how central a tenant governance is to "county" cannot be avoided.

The erroneous line of thought is that because there remains a law describing territorial extents, subdivisions and government centres of counties which originate in colonial British America and are disestablished in modern New Brunswick, that the counties separated from their enabling bodies themselves remain. NB is only one of the American sub-state jurisdictions where former counties remain as vestigial. PonapsqisHous (talk) 00:46, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Do you know what's different about New Brunswick? The province never disestablished its counties by law. Never. You've tried all this folderol before and it never becomes more than one editor's strange obsession that the noun "county" can only have one connotation in New Brunswick, despite repeated use of the same counties by two levels of government long after the municipalities were disincorporated. Just give it a rest; the only way you'll ever get anyone to agree with you is to create a sockpuppet. G. Timothy Walton (talk) 01:02, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Could it be that they have to contend with you and your sockpuppets? PonapsqisHous (talk) 01:21, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

This is clearly an argument from another article, and related to some specific legal complication in one country. Please don't disrupt this article, which for example also covers England, where it is clear that counties can exist without being administrative.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 05:16, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

I felt a need to give some warning. You may wish to examine the recent revisions to the article. G. Timothy Walton (talk) 13:19, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

It is not, tho it is related. Unfortunately, it's clear there are discouragements to consider the question of improving the article. Some direction is needed for how to go about it.

This contention passes the smell test. It is true. it is in the interest of the general good of the article. It seeks discussion on the topic and to build up editors. PonapsqisHous (talk) 18:48, 27 November 2024 (UTC)