Talk:Control of cities during the Syrian civil war/Archive 1

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Salaheddine (Aleppo)

Syrian Army recaptures most of Salaheddine district in early August,[6] but fighting continues with a stalemate late in the month[7] See also: Battle of Aleppo (2012). This is what it says in the line for Aleppo, but the Battle of Aleppo page says that the pro-Assad army made seemingly significant gains since the Salaheddine-coup. Is that really a stalemate?--80.109.154.100 (talk) 14:09, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Salaheddine is under Army control, the battle had spread, however, on Saif al-Dawla, Sukkari and other districts. --Wüstenfuchs 14:19, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

May I raise the same question again? Reading the Battle of Aleppo-Article I got the feeling that the Syrian Army cleared several districts since Salaheddine/late August. ought not this be reflected somehow in the summary? --88.117.70.128 (talk) 06:21, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

France 24 "references"

Whoever added all the France 24 "references" should know that merely name-dropping "France 24" mid-sentence is not a sufficiently verifiable reference. Either provide the reference or don't include the material. I'm debating whether or not to just remove all of the unsourced "France 24" claims as they stand in the article presently. This page is enough of a news-dump as is, at least try to source what you dump. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 20:06, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

The ideal action would be to search for sources for the claims (if relevant to the article) and add them. If you don't have time, maybe you can leave it to someone else. You're right though, of course, that they should have been cited in the first place. Maybe someone is watching it on TV and thinks they're except from citing because they can't link to the TV broadcast. Evzob (talk) 21:05, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Tishrin

Tishrin is under SAA control.

You have to be completly honnest :

- Binnesh under fire - Also Yabroud, Douma, and many other cities. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.220.75.212 (talk) 17:49, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Shelling alone doesn't make a city contested. Reports of combat do. I'd warrant that most rebel-held villages and towns come "under fire" at some point. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 18:16, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Who is speaking about shelling ? I speak about fighting in villages and in cities you put red or green. You put this morning salma contested and now it is red (??) as you should know that salma is completely circles by SAA (at the minimum). The same for Talkhala, red this morning, green this evening (??).

Regarding Binnesh, Douma and Yabroud, you have SAA troops on soil so = contested.

They are only some exemples.

Again, be honnest, whatever party you support !. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.220.75.212 (talk) 22:01, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Do you have reliable sources to back you up? That is the standard here—what is being reported by credible global media outlets, not the personal opinions of editors. Right now you're just blowing hot air, nothing more. And if you're just going to mindlessly sling accusations of bad faith on top of these sourceless assertions, we're done here. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 22:48, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

OK, here is the first post for Douma : "The source added that armed forces inflicted heavy losses on the terrorists in Douma. Nouman Abdulaziz, Ahmed al-Ajwah and Muhammed al-Hammouri were identified among the dead terrorists." (SANA - 06Jan13). So Douma = contested (at the minimum). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.220.75.212 (talk) 16:52, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Second post : HA8 completely beseiged by SAA (Al Watan Newspaper 07Jan13) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.220.75.212 (talk) 18:23, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Third post : ID11 (Taftanaz) put in green but heavy fight (not only around the military base) occured from several days (and weeks !) - breakingnews - Syrian Documents. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.220.75.212 (talk) 18:29, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

State propaganda outlets are unreliable. We don't use rebel sources like SOHR or LCC for this map—why should we use partisan government sources? ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 19:38, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, if you don't use rebel or government sources, what are your sources ????. propaganda is everywhere, from the both sides. It's your job to analysed them and to be as independant as you can in such situation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.220.75.212 (talk) 18:41, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

For exemples : - Regarding Mastuma (ID9), Regim propaganda said that they have cleaned this area and rebels propaganda said that they have left from this area. - Regarding Douma, Regime propaganda said that they killed (on soil) many gunmens. Rebels propaganda said that there is heavy fighting in Douma. - Regarding Taffranaz, Regime propaganda said that they killed "many" gunmens around the airport and inside tafftanaz city. Rebels propaganda confirmed that fierce combats occured in these areas.

=> These data, said differently of course (from both sides), converge, so why don't you trust them ?.

I saw some of your sources : are you considered Al Jazeera as a honnest propaganda ?. Let me have a doubt about that !. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.220.75.212 (talk) 19:28, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Yaribiyah

the Yaribiyah border post towards northern Iraq is not under the control of the rebells. it's in the hands of YPG. it has been stated many times in Kurdish media. Besides it doesn't make any sense to put it under FSA when there has not been a single report of FSA activity in that area. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.227.183.221 (talk) 14:07, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

 Done It was changed to red based on Syria army retakes Iraq border post from jihadists Tradedia^talk 09:27, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

You added the prison of Idlib circled by rebells but you don't mentionned :aquraba (Damascus Neibourhood)return to red, villages of d’Al-Jreineh et Brideij (Hama) red too. Clashes in Boosra al Harir (Deraa), Yabroud, bennesh, salquin etc..... What a pitty !, a prison and nothing else !. I repeat : be honnest !. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.220.39.28 (talk) 20:56, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

I repeat: produce some reliable sources or fuck off. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 20:59, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

My sources are not from Al jazeera !. You didn't answer me about that ! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.220.39.28 (talk) 21:03, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

No fight (on soil)in Douma, Rastan, Talabishe ?. You leave in a "no information zone" area ?. Thanks for Fuck-off, it seems that you have not too much to say. BIG reliable sources are in front of you, rebells and regime sides, not just a "little" prison. Is this the Battle of the year ?.

I forgot : Do you know if the restaurant near the prison is under rebels control ?. If so, please add a BIG green circle. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.220.39.28 (talk) 20:37, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

PLease, don't waste your time : put all the MAP directly green !. Be proud of your bad work. Regarding me, it is a piece of sheet..... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.220.39.28 (talk) 19:30, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks

Hey, i'd like to thank whoever took the time to make this and continuously update this, i think it was Lothar, this is a great resource to use for my studies of this conflict. If any news about anything comes up i'll be happy to notify you for the map. Jacob102699 (talk) 17:15, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Clickable map

Why isn't the map of Aleppo clickable, so anyone could view it?--Seerus (talk) 12:52, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Wondering here too .... very nice concept. Thank You very much for such a work. However I too am asking regarding the clickability of the map. The links are blind... why the links from the map are not going to the articles? (They are aiming at unexisting subsections of this very page?!) Reo ⁺ 20:57, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

 Done Tradedia^talk 02:44, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

They weren't aiming at "unexisting subsections of this very page", they were aiming at subsections of Cities and towns during the Syrian civil war, which is the page that this map was originally devised for. That's part of why the Aleppo map isn't clickable like this—there is no such article organised in the fashion of Cities and towns during the Syrian civil war for districts the battle of Aleppo (and nor should there be, in my opinion). The Aleppo map and this map show fundamentally different things. This is a pushpin-style map documenting control of specific, disjoined places, while the Aleppo map shows broad regions of territorial control and troop movements. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 06:53, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

The begining of the light

Allelouya !. You are begining to show that fight is everywhere. But please, if it is possible, don't multiply green circles when it show than, from several days, more and more "green areas" are circled by red. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.220.50.8 (talk) 22:25, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

As good map as it is possible

Well, it seems that you are going to be as honnest as you can in such situation. Well done !. Hope it will continue..... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.220.50.8 (talk) 12:59, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

The Explanation associated with every city/town/govenrnate

This explanation has been created to give the impression that the FSA actually controls many more towns than it does.

The explanation makes it seem as if the Kurdish armed wing is its own intity and not what it really is (A popular front part of the Syrian Government and fighting againat the FSA)

The Terrorist Organizations (Nusra Front, Al-Qaida, Etc.) are part of the FSA.

Everytime any insurgent group runs, bombs, or destroys a place the article here states "It was reported under the rebel's control"! even when the Government is still clashing with them.

The Article uses 'Has been reported', 'according to activists' or 'Aljazeera' and other Untrusted news portals to base its findings on!

Basically, This map wants you to think that the Syrian Government has lost control over a vast amount of areas and many millions of its citizens are now enjoying living under the rule of the FSA who protects them. When the truth is Today, Feb 14, 2013 there are only 20 towns (with total population of less than 1 Million) who are actually ruled by fighters not associated with the Syrian Government, and not one of those towns is safe from the Government's retaliation - the Government however has a plan to tacle other places first.

Thank you

Don't be angry. Smart people always make analyze looking on map. For example - for Damascus we have info: 70 000 government and 7000 rebels. And you can realize real situation. Color points are giving idea for known rebel positions, but doesn't mean rebels are proportionally strong. 10:1 this is situation in Damascus. So green spots are positions, but difference in power is dramatically. This explains why last 2 months more an more frequently opposition is ready to negotiate. Every day conditions for talks are closer than previous. So I hope soon can be signed agreement and spare many Syrian lives. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.40.118.68 (talk) 22:06, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

The city of Raqqa has seen heavy fighting recently. It is no longer under complete SAA control. Footage hs been leaking out for about 2 months showing minor FSA operations. It appears to have expanded significantly lately. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKAUKU-7jZs — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.169.68 (talk) 20:09, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

 Done The source you posted does not talk about Raqqa city, but rather starts of with al-Thawra city (in Raqqa province), then talks about other places in other provinces... However, based on other sources (https://now.mmedia.me/lb/en/nowsyrialatestnews/at-least-26-rebels-troops-die-in-syria-battle-ngo-says), I have put a green circle around the red dot of Raqqa city. I do not think that a "disputed" status is warranted yet... Tradedia^talk 09:13, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

HELLO. **RAQQAH** . There are many many videos on youtube showing that the center has been overrrun by the rebels today. Not sure if the entire town is in their hands, but at the least I think you need to update the icon to a flashing one to acknowlege this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SyriaMustBeFree (talk • contribs) 17:29, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Totally agree

From several weeks, I started to demonstrate that this MAP is partial. Unfortunately, the creator, instead of to be partial in such situation, is FSA/Alquaida link. I thought for some days, that the creator "saw the light". As usual for 2 years, even if the actual regime is criticable, there is mountains of lies regarding this conflict. Basic ideas for the mass : "Angels (REBELS and Cie) versus devil (ARMY, chabihas, Alaouits, Chiits). What a pitty ! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.220.49.93 (talk) 09:40, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Totat nonsense. The Free Syrian Army and allied militias is over 150.000 men strong. The army just over 200.000, including their Shabihah and Hezbollah allies. In the north of Syria, far away from governement centres like Damascus and Hama, rebels control large swaths of terretory. One can drive from the Turkmen Mountains in Latakia all the way to Tell Abyad in Raqqah without meeting a single army checkpoint. Also, I highly protest against some rates of troops seen in Wikipedia articles. It is said that 70.000 soldiers are based in Damascus. If that was true, they would easely be able to retake the districts under rebel control like Douma and Irbeen. But they can't, fpr the army is losing this war. Your own words mark you as a staunch governement supporter, so your not neutral too. Nobody is in this war. But this is the closest map I've seen yet, coming to the real situation in Syria. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.102.2.163 (talk) 09:52, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

So if rebels are too many - why they still can not take whole Allepo? Between houses in narrow streets army aircraft doesn't have a chance to see and hit them. Rebels already have anti tank weapons - so army is does not have superior weapons anymore. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.84.86.14 (talk) 11:53, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

They are not able to take Aleppo as a whole, because the Syrian Army has made the city (economic capital of Syria) a strategic priority. They have at least 10.000 soldiers in there, supported by an air force and heavy artillery. Rebels do however control some 50=60% of the city and many surrounding areas, a sign of their strengh. Do you realy think that if the regular army had the manpower, weapons and will to secure Aleppo, they would have accepted rebels controling even an inch of Aleppo city? No, the army can't hold on to Aleppo as a whole, so they defend the ring road, airport and western districts (since those are close to military facilities). And your comment about the air force is nonsense, sorry. Assad doesn't use his air force for precision strikes. He uses them to shell districts under rebel control, as to force rebel fighters out because of the high civilian death toll. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.24.43.183 (talk) 15:31, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

BE SERIOUS

More than 150 000 rebels ?, just 200 000 SAA soldiers ?. Please, indicate your source (and not al jazzera if you can...)as, despite 14 000 death from 15 March 2011, the SAA has more than 450 000 soldiers (do you want to mean 200 000 in Infantry ?. If so, I'm OK but you have to add all army corps too !). Is there a possibility, to explain why the SAA take so much time to eradicate terrorism, that they go ahead slowly just because they don't want to kill (but they do as is it a war !) too much citizen ?. And please, don't say that SAA is making a genocide or explain what's happen today in Damascu with more than 50 civilians killed and more than 235 hurted (it is not the first and not the last one !).

Regarding arms. I agree, rebells receives modern weapons but it is not new !. And, if you look the toll of death rebels / day from July 2012 and the very poor "victories", I'm not sure they are going to winn despite Occident and Golf's helpers !.

And finally, just as an exemple, if they are so strong, why Homs is lost?.

Regarding all areas "controlled" by the rebels : There is no safe places for them in Syrian territory unless in the extrem border of Turkey. It is a fact !. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.220.156.2 (talk) 17:04, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

I agree about firmly controlled rebel territories only in border area - because of zone wich is close to Turkey. In Homs there is not safe heaven near/Turkey is far/.Areas near Damascus are not firmly controled - just attack and withdraw to save heaven in Lebanon. If only Lebanon close borders for FSA - there will be no chance for retreat after battle. The big advantage for FSA is wearing civilian clothes - this make very difficult to SAA to recognize them. This give them element of surpize. If exclude this result is very known. For example look FSA made video near Allepo - SAA launch artilery strike and destroy column with tens of cars loaded with FSA. I dont' preffer nor SAA neither FSA. Just want to see reallystic info. Only actual info for war is: Western countries want Assad to fall, but last 2 months more and more western countries begin to say that war is not going to end soon, more than this - current ruler can remain for some more years. If western governments say this - this make map of figtings clearer. They don't like Assad and if they say that he will survive this cannot be aknowledged as pro government propaganda. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.40.118.68 (talk) 17:58, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Answer of "BE SERIOUS": I am. The military situation in Syria is far more complex than you seem to understand. There are more rebels than the Free Syrian Army, and independent estimates (Institute for the Study of War, Harvard University) have examined themre are over 100.000 fighters in the Free Syrian Army alone. Count above that the Syrian Liberation Army with thousands of fighters inside northern Syria, the Nusra Front with over 6000 fighters (sources: The Guardian and New York Times) and local militias like Liwa al-Islam in Daascus that operate within nu other structures. The Assad army has a max of 300.000 soldiers, but those include Sunni coscripts deemed untrustworthy by the Alawite command. So the actual fighting power of the regime at the START of the civil war was around 150.000 to 200.000. We all know the army has suffered defections and losses, so it's not so strange to put the actual fighting capacity (offensively seen) of the SAA on 150.000 at this point in the conflict.

Regarding your strange "safe zone" ideas. Rebels have created a safe zone on the ground in the north and east of the country. Journalists and medical aid workers are able to travel from the Iraqi border to Deir ez-Zor and from the Turkish border to Aleppo and Idlib without meeting ANY Syrian regime presence. The only presence the SAA has there is their aire force, but that is coming under increased attack as FSA fighters attack air bases and capture anti-air missiles from governement forcess (best examples: base 46 and Jarrah airbase). Regarding your explanation why the SAA is unable to defeat the FSA: they simply can't, for they are not trained to guerilla style warfare. They sweep into cities with heavy armor and shell complete communities in the hope of establishing a governement of terror and fear. The only problem is, that cost them morale AND soldiers, because many defected. Also, heavy armor cannot manouver inside small Syrian streets, which gives the FSA an advantage. I also have a question to you: why would the SAA, if they were interested in sparing civilians, commit airstrikes on hospitals (as seen on indepenent media), fire SCUD MISSILES into CIVILIAN DISTRICTS of Aleppo WITH NO rebel presence? The SAA has become a terror army in itself, I fear. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.24.43.183 (talk) 22:04, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

THREE POSSIBILITIES

There is 3 differents view in this conflict :

- You are for Bachar El Assad so, you say that the rebels are all terrorists (nort completely true). - You are for the rebels and then, you can see, such as this MAP, the ainous propaganda against the regime and dayly lies about the situation. More than this, you are basic. The good against the devil and that's all. - You attempt to be as honest as you can (you can't be honnest completely if you are syrian or affiliated). Then, you describ the situation like it is and not like you would like to be.

=> A desaster and a volontary devastation of a country in the name of so called "freedom" !. It's a shame...................

This MAP don't reflect the reality and is updated by people who have the first point of view. Multiplication of green points (in most of the cases small villages) when rebels are falling in real battles. References not really honest (Aljazira for exemple) and green or red point without fighting where rebels and gouvernment said that there are fights.

The only thing I see since 2011 is that syrian people suffer and die. And it is not ony because of the actual government (less and less when time is running according to me). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.220.29.135 (talk) 20:00, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Here you have my in depth essay on the current fight. I hope it takes away some of your scepsis ;)

How do the SAA and FSA relates to each other? The SAA has over 300.000 soldiers on paper. In reality however, the current civil war has forced the army to adopt a selective policy of using it’s fighting units. Many Alawite generals and officers view the Sunni conscripts as disloyal to the regime of president Assad. Since most of the lower level conscripts are Sunni Arabs, the real fighting power of the regular army had eroded away to about 100.000 to 150.000 troops, mostly Alawites and Christians and some loyal Sunni units. The rest of the army stayed in guarded barracks or was kept away from the actual front lines. Compare this to the rebels: the FSA is a ragtag mix of civilian volunteers and army deserters. Independent estimates say the total FSA manpower lies about 100.000 fighters (including 30.000 – 40.000 Islamists). Those estimates however don’t count Jabhat al-Nusra, Ahrar al-Sham, Liwa al-Islam and Liwa al-Umma, who together can amount to another 20.000-30.000 fighters, mostly of Jihadist origins. The total known manpower of the rebel movement is, considering these facts, around 130.000-140.000.

Why can’t the SAA beat the FSA? The SAA relies on heavy armor and artillery for control. They don’t have popular support in Sunni areas. If they storm a district and pull out, if falls back under rebel control. Rebels on the other hand are very fluid in their attacks and eat away at the army bit by bit. While we see that the SAA can control major cities and roads, they fail to control smaller rural areas. Those areas have been transformed to FSA free zones, from where the opposition is mounting ever more precise attacks on SAA positions. The close street fighting in Syrian cities has also chewed away the armed core of the army. It’s easy for lightly armed FSA fighters to destroy tanks with an RPG in small streets of Homs, Aleppo and Idlib. The army thus shifted to indiscriminate shelling of rebel held towns and districts, thus alienating the population from them and encouraging more Sunni defections to the FSA. Also, the rubble left behind from artillery and aircraft strikes hamper SAA mechanical deployments. You could say that the SAA had shot itself in the foot by adopting a shelling and raiding tactic in Syria.

Why can’t the FSA beat the SAA? The FSA has taken control of large swaths of Syrian territory. Recently, independent aid workers were able to travel from Abu Kamal on the Iraqi border to the city of Deir ez-Zor without meeting any loyalist forces. In the north, there is the Kilis Corridor north and east of Aleppo city, which is fully rebel controlled. The Jabal al Zawiyah mountains and the Ghab plain in northern Hama form another FSA free zone. The FSA is not yet able to defeat the SAA in open combat, because the SAA has an operational air force and heavy artillery. The FSA lacks both. If rebel forces advance, they are heavily shelled and need to pull back. This is also evident in the Syrian Arab Army strategy for taking control of a rebel controlled city of district: surrounding, shelling and storming it. The FSA has been slow in taking over military installations in the country, thus receiving heavier weapons. We see this on the ground: as the FSA stormed several army bases in 2012, they were able to mount offensives into Aleppo city and Jarrah airbase, as well as Taftanaz airbase in Idlib province. This trend will continue: with every base the FSA captures, they will become more well armed and equipped to fight the SAA in open battles (as we have already seen in Shadida and Tishreen Dam).

Why is this map great? This map shows the truth. Many rural areas in northern and eastern Syria are under rebel control. In those areas, the only regime presence is isolated and besieged compounds like Mennegh and Nayrab and air raids on rebel held cities. On the ground, the Free Syrian Army has the upper hand. In central Syria, the situation is more fluid as the army largely controls Homs and Hama and the coastal regions. They have a secure foothold there against rebel fighters, who suffer from long supply lines and army sieges. Still, the situation in central Syria is that of a stalemate (the exception being Homs, were the FSA is not able to send in new brigades and heavy weapons due to a tight army siege). Homs is the only place in northern Syria were the SAA is really winning this war at the moment. The SAA has given up on eastern Syria. Only Qamishli, Raqqah, Hasakah and Deir ez-Zor airport are in their hands. Those places stand like islands in a rebel controlled sea. In the south of the country, the SAA has the upper hand. In Damascus, Deraa and As Suwayda, the army is able to contain the FSA into small pockets and besieged towns like Zabadani, Hirak and Dael. In Damascus however, some of the best armed and organized FSA brigades control a string of suburbs from Douma in the north (to the east: Harashta, Irbeen, Zamalka, Ein Tarma, Saqba, Jisreen, Hamoryah and Mleha) along the Ghouta area to Hajar al-Aswad and Darraya in the south. In the capital, there is a clear stalemate: the regime had to few loyal Alawite soldiers to break the stalemate, the FSA does not have the weapons and manpower to advance beyond Jobar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.24.43.183 (talk) 22:33, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

A notice: the situation in daraa governorate has completely change now rebels are storming several military installations,and they where able to completely to capture jasim,Hirak,and busra al harir,even through the government is shelling these areas,and a change is beginning to happen in sweida,where now there is more protests and religious Druze Leaders are calling people to support the rebels Abdo45 (talk) 14:18, 27 February 2013 (UTC) For Homs it is beginning to become more of a stalement,especially now,the advance you are talking about in homs happened in the December-January period Abdo45 (talk) 14:21, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

POINT BY POINT

- SAA soldiers number and confessionalism: 60% of the syrian population is sunni. As you probably know, SAA is an conscript army for most of his part. it means that (sorry but it is statistical)60% of the SAA army is composed by sunni soldiers. If we follow your theory :

SAA composed only 80 000 to 100 000 soldiers (all armes). It means too that 40% of the SAA could maintain 60% of all SAA soldiers in their caserns ! At the minimum, it means that these 60% don't mind about the "revolution".

Just few remarks : - There is an estimation of 14 000 SAA soldiers killed from March 2011. Most of them (statically normal) are sunnis. - There were defections until Jul2012 (unfortunately for the rebell cause, not as much as espected. But, from this date, defections are really ridiculous (see comments available from several Media sources and not especially Pr-regime Medias). - You have names of all officers (these who take decisions)in the Syrian army web site. if you are syrian, you will see that the Legend about the fact their are all Alaouites will be still a legend. - From Jul2013, the Number of new conscripts araise significatively in syria. - In your estimations of number of SAA soldiers, it seems that you forgot Air army, Marine Army, Special forces etc.........

In conclusion for this part : Nor you and me knows the real number of SAA soldiers available for this war but please, don't give numbers from nowhere just because they are followed your positions.

- Reality of FSA and........Non FSA You spoke only about FSA but, finally, you agreed to say that FSA is around 70 000 "soldiers" and, with "other fighters", there is about 140 000 rebells in syrian territory. So, at the minimum, if I follow your demonstration, there is at the minimum 70 000 Djihadist in Syria !. What are they doing here ?. Fighting for liberty ?.

Just few remarks :

- Military expert considered that an army will lost the battle very quickly if the ratio of death is not equal or greater that 1/3 (1 soldier versus 3 ennemies). So, simple mathematics. If you consider that 14 000 SAA soldiers were dead in this conflict, it means that a minimum of 42 000 rebells were dead. - Your number of 140 000 fighters (again, what are your sources ?) is simply not credible as, if it was true, the SAA would be collapsed for a long time. - Regarding "great victories" of FSA ans espacially SAA bases. Tafatannaz and Jarrah bases for exemple were ancient bases, free of heavy weapons and, it seems that, finally, SAA eliminated most of the rebells bases occupied after these "great victories" ! (rtactic or not, I don't know).

In conclusion for this part : You admit that almost half of number rebells are Djihadists and i'm not sure that they are fighting for freedom. As for previous chapter, your estimations of fighter numbers are not verified and, as usual in war, nobody at this day could give a good estimation of rebells numbers. Regarding rebells victories, it seems that they are very limited, not for a long time and they payed a heavy price to take somewhere a building, somewhere else a field. As you said, no important cities, no important roads are in rebels hands. It is really important because it means that they don't have the capacity to keep their positions and citizens are not FSA allies for most of them.

- The truth of this MAP

I will be really short on this chapter as I already spoke about that. Just as exemples, there is fights (for several weeks)on : Yabrud, Hajar El aswad, Maarat Al Numan, Al Rastan, Talbiseh, Saraquib, Binnish, Al Bab, Salma, Zamalka, Arbin etc..... But, these towns are GREEN !. Could you explain why if this MAP reflected the truth ?.

Finally, you give the military aspect of the situation and, even if I don't want to minimize the power of destruction of the rebells, I'm not sure that you tell the truth. Street battle is very hard and long (for the both sides) and in countryside, it is very easy for small groups to move. It seems that you voluntary erase the growing power of Djihadists in the "FSA". You erase too, the confrontations between several different groups that are growing too. These confrontations are, from my opinion, the reflect of a non coordination and a big "anxiety" regarding the events and the losts.

Politically, rebells and Doha coordination have already lost the war. But, I think that they are going to continue to kill and destroy syria untill the end. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.220.156.2 (talk) 10:25, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

It's truly funny to see your lack of understanding of my figures. Concerning Jihadists, I didn't claim that every rebel is either secular or Jihadi. Ever heard of moderate Islamists? Salafists? Liberals? Nationalists? You seem to have a black and white picture of the FSA and the SAA that makes you unable to see the complex situation in Syria. I have to admit I find it funny to argue with you, since your always blasting against me about sources, but don't give neutral sources either. Your assumption that the SAA still has over 200.000 soldiers is ridiculous. Every army in the world would use that manpower to take back major cities like Homs and Aleppo, but the SAA isn't even trying anymore. They are on the defensive. Also, concerning Jihadists and rebels in total I think the following is a good indication: FSA: 60.000-80.000 Islamist: 30.000-50.000 Jihadist: 20.000-30.000

It's unclear if Islamists will automaticaly choose the Jihadist side. Also, there have been NO MAJOR reports of infighting between rebel groups appart from some small clashes. And it's logical to say the FSA is no centralised fighting force. The first year was a guerilla style war, were centralised command means certain destruction of rebel forces. Your ignoring of my statements and questions about artillery fire and SCUD missiles says enough about your one sided reasoning .... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.31.204.195 (talk) 12:58, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Funny isn't it ?

Thanks for your answer.

"Ever heard of moderate Islamists? Salafists? Liberals? Nationalists?". In your previous comments, Liberals and Nationalists didn't appears. You spoke about FSA and Djihadist and that's all. Regarding moderate islamists, please, be serious. You make differences between islamists and Djihadistes in youraccountability of rebell forces. it is not the time for phylosophy.

Regarding infighting between rebells. I didn't wrote that it began to be a war between this or this group. I just said that before few months we never heard about that and now, once a week, a "brother fighting" occur (last one today, 10 death).

Also, give me a unique exemple of "neutral source". Al jazeera, AFP or "by talk" like it is mentionned for this MAP or aleppo MAP ?; As you indicate without any proof the number of rebells as "a good estimation", I can do the same without any sources for SAA. What is the difference between you and me ?.

SAA in the defensive ?. Even in the North of syria, SAA is present (not in turkish border). For the east (iraki border), don't forget that Iraki army began to be less friendly with "syrian" rebells since few weeks (is there any deal with syrian regim ?).

Regarding SCUD, even Europe and USA stated that they have no proof about that. More than this, the first video (put in Internet by rebells) witch show the use of SCUD by SAA was finally a fake as it was demostrated that this video were taken during army exercises occured last year.

I agree for artillery, and then ?. It's a war and every side use what they have. Is this the government who use car bombs in central Damascus or Aleppo, Homs etc..........?. Unfortunatly, the regime don't have the monopol of killing civilians for free.

Instead of what you could think, i'm not an admirator of the syrian regime. But, unfortunatly, I don't have any alternative in this case. The real battle for syria is not know but after the chaos wanted by some nations. There is contestations in syria for many years and there is many things that should be changed after all this destruction.

I'm not sure that Doha coalition (and more less islamists/Djihadists) have the capacities to performed this changes for the good of the syrian people. But, in the other side, the actual power have to do these changes when the situation will come safer. If it do not, it will be definitively out !. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.220.156.2 (talk) 15:19, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

It remains to be seen what outcome we have in Syria. Indeed, the regime is still strong. I didn't claim to fully support the opposition either. The SNC will form a governement in exile in the coming month that will take steps to govern rebel held terretory inside Syria. This could take the Jihadists on a backtrack, since they will loose influence. The question is however, how soon the FSA can secure vital areas like Aleppo city and Raqqah. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.24.43.183 (talk) 10:27, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

I beg your pardon ?

You said that "you didn't claim to fully support the opposition" but you hope that FSA secure Aleppo and Raqquah and you speak about an irrealistic governement in exil ?. Well, Aleppo will never be under FSA control. You know why ?. Just because the majority of aleppian don't want to be under FSA and Co law. For Raqqah (the new revolution city after Homs, Damascu and Aleppo ?), it will be the same. Not just because SAA is stronger but because rebells begins to be alone and, their former "friends" are turning back. Regarding the governement in exil, is it a joke ?. There is so many different movements in the "Doha coalition" than they will fight togeher before. Regarding the Djihadists, excuse me, but they are laughing when they heard about "Doha coalition" and they don't mind about it.

No, finally, SNC has no choice. To speak with the actual governement or to die (politicaly). Regarding Djihadists, no other choice than to die (physically) as they are so fool to fight untill the end. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.220.29.135 (talk) 16:12, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Turkish border

Last week medias reported for Turkey army shelled Syrian territory because of mine landed in Turkish territory. As all we know - Turkey provide open border for FSA. What does it mean - Turkey army will not use artillery against FSA. So why they shoot? Answer is simple: because there are SAA soldiers. This map shows all Nord of Syria in green, but??? Who did they shell then? Answer is simple - just missing SAA red dots on map. I saw rebel made videos for Saraqeb - fighting with SAA. But on this map there is green point instead of fighting/unclear. Pro FSA media claimed capturing Maarat al-numaan recently, but on this map Maarat al-numaan is green for months!!!! So probably many of green points here are unreliable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.40.118.68 (talk) 21:45, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

If you look at the infobox of Battle of Maarrat al-Nu'man, you will read the sentence: "Rebel forces take control of Maarat al-Nu'man and much of its surroundings by mid-October". This means that it has been under rebel control for almost 5 months now. Tradedia^talk 16:52, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Be carefull !

What is my surprise this morning to see on this Map, on the lebanon border, a multiple red little points. It is not the first time that "the mapper" add some red points before some going to be green or fighting few days (few hours ??)after. I'm really answering if the mapper is not aware about military operations of FSA and Co ?. If so, be carefull man (or woman) !. You take the risk to burn your wings in this deal.

I agree with what wrote above. There is a very few part of Syrian territory without any presence of SAA, Police or special forces. But it is true too that the extrem north of syria is under "FSA and Co" control.

Regarding Turkey. They have lost yesterday night another 4 officers in Aleppo city. Their implicatio in this crisis is no more a questionned for any camp. Thus, without a real support from OTAN allies, Turkey is going to pay a heavy price for FSA and Co's help. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.220.29.135 (talk) 08:55, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Those little red dots are villages of Shi'ite Lebanese who support Hizbullah and, by extension, the Syrian regime. By a quirk of history, they were put into Syria without being given Syrian citizenship. Hizbullah fighters have used these villages as launching points for attacks on the FSA around Qusair. It is also in this sector that Hizbullah artillery fired from Lebanon into Syria, provoking an invasion threat from the FSA. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.18.45.253 (talk) 23:47, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

What I read just above is a shame. Nobody has the first proof of the implication of hezbollah army in Syrian conflict inside syrian territory. Just a fake idea as Hezbollah, for a great majority of occidental population, is the Devil !. Regarding relationship between Hezbollah and syria, see below what we know surely :

- Syria supplied (and still supply) Hezbollah with military devices. - Syria (as Iran, as Argentina, As Venezuela, as Russia, As China, As Brazil.....) is a great "friend" of hezbollah.

All the rest are shadows !. I can do a video with a Hezbollah flag and several "actors" to say : "look, the hezbollah help Syrain regime to kill syrian people !". As I can make another video with SAA soldiers, in a ruin neighborhood and say :" look, the majority of Akhalydye Neighborhood is cleaned of terrorist !". It is so easy "fears" populations !. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.220.156.2 (talk) 14:59, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

JASIM / JACIM in Daraa Governorate

Has reportedly been taken today [24 February 2013] by the FSA. Fairly copious video evidence. I will leave the people who regularly curate this page to update the map as they see fit.

Please, I tried to see something about that on Web - Nothing !. Could you please help me with links ?. Thanks a lot. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.220.41.156 (talk) 22:29, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Mourk is under SAA control

Please, change the status. FSA video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odmk9AkRcz8 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Андрей Моряков (talk • contribs) 22:07, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Please stop asking for changes based only on SAA made or FSA made video. I can use my own video collections to claim that I've taken control of Washigton or London :)

Actualy they don't have clear picture at background to give us chance to check if they are from this location or homemade.

There are hundreds of videos of armed people/FSA or SAA/ walking on narrow street and nobody can say where is this video made.

When video shows wlee known place - ok, but dark and abandoned building - this can be everywhere.

Last week I saw video from Homs and man in front of camera had newspaper in hands - to verify date of video.

It is hard to provide such video, but great to filter junk movies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.84.86.14 (talk) 07:05, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

This video was done by "Ugarit News" (Pro-FSA) and was probably filmed on 25 Feb 2012, not 25 Feb 2013. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.220.41.156 (talk) 21:06, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Wikilink for Zayta

Hi, could somebody include Zayta (also sp. Zita al-Gharbiyah or Zeita) in the chart. It's a Shia village on the Lebanese border that is currently under pro-government control and has been the center of numerous clashes between local Hezbollah-backed fighters and the FSA. I've had trouble linking in the chart. --Al Ameer son (talk) 06:07, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

 Done Tradedia^talk 09:01, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Al Rastan, Houla, Talbiseh, Al Bab, Saraquib, Binish, Yabrud, Douma, Hajar El Aswad

Hi, Could somebody include all cyties above as fighting and not green (per syrian people (not only alaouits or christians or Druzes or kurds), AAS, FSA, Islamists talks). It would be honnest. Thanks a lot. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.220.41.156 (talk) 11:14, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Saraqib

According to yesterday news in Reuters - SAA still have lot of blockposts arround Saraqib to prevent FSA to enter the city. This info is completely opposite on info in article 'battle for Saraqib'. Does anybody have more info about situation there? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.40.118.68 (talk) 22:00, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

I looked for recent Reuters report taking about Saraqib, but could not find any. On the other hand, we have in the table this Reuters report from 2 November 2012 ("Syrian government forces quit town linking Aleppo to south: monitor".) which says: “Syrian forces loyal to President Bashar al-Assad have withdrawn from their last base near Saraqib” Tradedia^talk 16:15, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Ar Raqquah

Thanks a lot to put this town spotting and not green (as all Minstream Medias said that All Raqquah is under rebels hand !). It is quit honnest !. There are still miised informations but..............NOBODY IS PERFECT !. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.220.39.202 (talk) 20:32, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

What is definitely wrong in the infobox for Raqqa is saying this is the first provincial capital captured by the FSA. The first provincial capital to be captured by the FSA was Idlib.

 Done Tradedia^talk 15:50, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, I wrote too early !. You are definitively a rebel !. In fact, Raqqah is not under rebels hand, only the North ouest (and it seems that they are not to stay too much longer as usual !). That's what I said from the beginning : You are a lier !. Good luck !. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.220.156.2 (talk) 13:55, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Why your accusations are unfounded:

1. There were news flying around the web about Jasim falling into rebel hands. The contributor has not reacted to these, but waited for conclusive evidence, which have not materialized and Jasim has been left as unclear.

2. Deir-Ez-Zor is entirely in rebel hands, the army only holds the airbase which is under siege. Yet, Deir-Ez-Zor remains unclear on the map.

3. Khan Al-Asal was taken weeks ago, only a few positions close byt were under army control when this town was added. Yet it was added as unclear, and still is.

4. Ariha is unclear only because of a report that the army has taken over one position, which may not even be inside the town.

5. Zabadani is mostly held by FSA, army had only a few isolated positions. And it's still unclear.

Incidentally, why should I or anyone else believe you are not government? You haven't exactly shown an unbiased opinion. --41.76.208.114 (talk) 09:22, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Well for now it should remain as unclear but if all the regime soldiers are pushed out of the city then we'll colour it green. Right is not TOTALLY under rebel hands but most of , troops withdrew and went to the aiport west of the city. --Amedjay (talk) 19:56, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

All we need to know, who is holding the bridges over the Euphrates? If it's the army, a counterattack is possible and unclear status is warranted. If it's the FSA, the city is theirs. We need video or pictures.--41.76.208.114 (talk) 09:22, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

I'm really sorry but all data above have no proof : 1 - "There were news flying around the web" : It is not a proof !. As you know, from the both sides, fake videos or comments are millions !. The only way to be as honnest as it is possible is to wait a little and confront news from the both sides. 2 - " Deir-Ez-Zor is entirely in rebel hands" : What are your source because it's untrue !. What is true is that rebells took about 65% of the city but not the entire city !. 3- "Khan Al-Asal was taken weeks ago" : Again untrue !. There is fierce fights between AAS and rebels until now. It is confirmed by the both sides. 4 - Ariha : I really don't know. 5 - "Zabadani is mostly held by FSA, army had only a few isolated positions" : Again untrue. Zabadani is under fierce fights from several weeks in all the town and many rebells, every day, are falling (AAS soldiers too).

Finally, you are emphazing the situation (entirely, mostly)of te rebells on field as, for each offensive, they pay a heavy price with not a long time success (fortunatly or unfortunatly, it is not the purpose of this discussion)!. You put on time, when "there were news flying around the web", green circles on MAP (and you add very easily several green point in my opinion)but you are not prompt to put red circles when it appears that both sides confirm the situation.

I understand that the work you began is too hard, and you have the right to have your own opinion on the situation. But, WIKIPEDIA is not a website where you can spread any propaganda.

That's what you did from the beginning.

Signed : a Syrian with family and friends in Syria from any confession and any politic party. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.220.156.2 (talk) 10:59, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

I did not do or fail to do anything as I am NOT the guy editing the map. My point, which you completely missed is that if the editor was LOOKING for an EXCUSE to portray a picture favorable to the rebels, he could of FOUND plenty. Since he did not, you have NO right to accuse him of bias! Signed: Someone who actually reads what other people have to say!--41.76.208.114 (talk) 12:52, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Don't worry , he's not the only one to be accused ... --78.232.100.63 (talk) 19:06, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

According to him there is only fighting in rebel held cities and districts while the SAA held areas know no fighting. --78.232.100.63 (talk) 19:08, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Why did you said that ?. Did I said that ther is no fights in Damascus, Deraa, Raqquah and and and ?. It seems that you don't really read carefully what it is writting. I just said that AAS is everywhere and there is no free AAS zone in syria unless in the extrem northwes of syria in the turquish border. Is that irrealistic ?, is it Propaganda ?. Not as high as this MAP !. Effectively, you don't have to worry, I'm not the only one "who accuse" !. There is more and more people around the world who are begining to use their brain to have some reflexions :

- More than 2 years for a "revolution" ? = Impossible. - More than 15 000 AAS soldiers dead from 2 years in front of "unarmed" revolutionnaries ? = Impossible in this case that AAS could be a "sanguinar" army with no "ethics". Impossible that rebels fights with only "stones" !. - "No strangers nor Djihadists nor Al Quaida in syria. It is a true revolution" = Idea from media Meanstream from the beginning to October 2012. LIES from the beginning !. - "No helps from Gulf Countries, Turkey, Germany, France, GB, USA, Israël" = Another LIE as these countries admitted (not for a long time) that they have helped (and they continue to help) rebells.

For all these points and more, I'm hill everyday to see in spread medias like WIKIPEDIA, a huge propaganda for a party, I confess, as a syrian who watch his country goes down day by day for free, I hate. But, as a scientist, I don't forget that I have to be as honest as I can. I repeat, it is not the case of this MAP. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.220.39.202 (talk) 23:18, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

You know right now it's more a civil war than a revolution. If you complain about the rebels taking control of cities then go fight with your "coureageous and noble" syrian army! I'm not gonna argue anymore with you because it's useless... --78.232.100.63 (talk) 20:39, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

You use different IP's to spread your propaganda. --78.232.100.63 (talk) 20:41, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

If you're spreading your hate of the rebels here then you're not as honest and neutral as you pretend to be! --78.232.100.63 (talk) 20:45, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Well, "not a revolution but a civil war". What evolution in speach !. 2 years with a "great revolution in the Arabs states (not all, just states are "embarrassing' west countries), with "great results" as we can see !; and now, civil war ?. Are Djihadists (tchetchens, Tunisians, Lybians, Saoudians, Turcs, Europeans, Americans) are syrian civilians ?.

Where are my complains sir ?. I didn't see any copplaints in my comments as I know that Syria (all syria with all syrian)is going to win. The real challenge will be after the chaos.

It is more efficient to "fight" in Europe for Syria than in syria itself !. Regarding honesty, please see in your home before.

I gave you above many reflexions than more and more people have in their head. No answers as usual!. simple words, classical sentences but no answers on the facts. Today, one of my uncle shot dead in syria just because in Hajar el Aswad, he denied the rebells "invitation" to go on street for these fakes friday contestation !. 72 years old, not pro nor anti regime, just a syrian.

They have already lost this "civil war" regarding the great majority of syrian peaople. If they were intelligent, after some months of fighting, they should negociate with the regime to obtain something. It is too lat for them and unfortunately too late for syria.

Regarding the MAP, you can continue to Lie with no problems. But don't forget that Syria is not Lybia and you are going to have some surprises. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.220.39.202 (talk) 23:25, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

So basically what you're saying is that we should just color all of Syria as contested? That would be such an informative map! You could clearly see what is going on on the ground!--197.105.245.120 (talk) 21:15, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

If it is the truth, why not ?. I agree, it will be less informative than today but, what do you want ?, false informations or truth ?. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.220.39.202 (talk) 09:25, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Deir ez-Zor region

What's the status of the semi-important towns of Hajin, al-Muhasan, al-Quriyah and al-Busayrah? I assume they're in rebel hands, but how come they're not presented on the map or the table? --Al Ameer son (talk) 20:44, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

 Done They are now green dots on the map per http://www.understandingwar.org/sites/default/files/AssadRegime-web.pdf, p 33, “claimed control over the Euphrates river belt from Deir ez-Zor city to the Iraqi border” Tradedia^talk 18:50, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

fighting is continued in Al Raqqa

Fighting indeed continues but in the center of the city. It has been cleared and many videos report Hafez Al-Assad's statue being destroyed by rebels and civilians --Amedjay (talk) 19:59, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Not only in the center of the city. It is not because a statue being destroyed that a city felt !. Symbolism didn't work enough in 2013. We are not in Baghdad sir !. Wait several days and you will see, as every rebells "victory" that Raqquah will be a shadow............ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.220.39.202 (talk) 23:02, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Point is, no government personnel was around to stop them. The battle started three days ago, what exactly is the SAA "waiting" for? And funny how you find AP reliable when reporting news favorable to the government, and biased when reporting news favorable to the rebels.--41.76.208.114 (talk) 13:07, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Well, I'm not sure to understand the all sentence above. "What the SAA exactly waiting in Raqquah ?". Did I said that there is nothing in this town ?. I don't think so. When thousands rebells made an offensive and spread in a city wher there are hundreds thousands refugees from other cities , you can't ask an army to "explose" everything in few days. I give news that could be verified in front of propaganda from the both sides. It is not the case regarding this MAP.

Biaises are univatables, but not at this level regarding this MAP !! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.220.156.2 (talk) 10:33, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

When the rebels storm a city, it's a massacre and the population is being murdered but when it's the "noble" SAA forces ( Yes firing SCUD missiles into civilians is very noble and couraegous ) the city is being "liberated from terrorists" right? --78.232.100.63 (talk) 20:36, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Whahhhh! Where did I said that ?. First, in a sovereign country, could you tell me witch entities represents legallity ?. Regarding rebells, please look at the last episods in some neiborhoods of Raqquah, and return to discussions. Can you give me an exemple of a clean war ? (I will be very interested by your exemples !).

Regarding Scud, let me laugh a little. Even NATO and USA said that there is no proof of their utilisation by AAS (but, of course, you have more informations than these organisations or countries no ?).

Just in case of you were out of space during certains events :

- 80 civilians death, 235 hurts in Damascus by a car bomb (revendicated by Al Nusra front) - 53 civilians death in Damascus again (last blast).

And there is a long list of civilian death due to, how can you named them ?, liberators ?.

So, please, Good versus Evil is for kids or stupid guys. War (not act of terrorism !) kill innocent and it is certainely not the "speciality" of AAS only !!. Right ?. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.220.39.202 (talk) 23:48, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

There is a video of a big missile hitting Daraya. You gonna claim that to be faked?--197.105.245.120 (talk) 21:04, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

First, give me the link of this video. "a video with a big missile ?", Ouahhhh !, really precise !. Well. What are the facts in Darraya  ? :

1 - More than 70% of the town is under AAS control. 2 - The Town is completely destroy. It means that heavy shell (from AAS part) and many IED (from rebells part) occured since the beginning of the fight for this town. 3 - There are still heavy fights in this town as it is (for rebells) a very strategic point. If it falls, Hajar El Aswad will fall too very quicly and then, all Al Ghouta Al Sharkya will be down definitively (with no hope of return). 3 - The big majority (like in every town where there is fights) of the population were displaced a long time ago.

Here are facts not "a video" witch show a huge explosion. But, as usual, guys like you are prompt to have delirious conclusions just by viewing "a single video". I can show you a video posted by rebells with the landing of 2 SCUDS in the desert of syria. But no luck for them as this video was done by AAS army several weeks before during military maneuvre.

AAS have the power to destroy all areas they want in syria, even if there is a big concentration of civilians (Haffez El Assad did that in 82). If they did that from the beginning, you can be sure that you would heard "the friends of syria".

It's incredible to see that we live in the reign of images. For the majority, videos with a good mixage are enough for to have certitudes. Doesn't matter if this video is withdraw from it context.

Simple life in a simple world, it is easier no ?. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.220.39.202 (talk) 22:07, 9 March 2013 (UTC)