Talk:Congolese rumba

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"popular genre of dance music that originated in the Congo basin"

Is this strictly true? I thought that rumba emerged almost exclusively in Kinshasa/Brazzaville, rather than the interior. They cannot really be described as part of the Congo basin. Is there any evidence for significant groups outside this, in say Kisangani or Lubumbashi? —Brigade Piron (talk) 08:45, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

Cuban origin

I do not want to engage in User:Revirvlkodlaku's edit fight, so I bring this issue here. The article currently says In the 1930s and 1940s, the music of Afro-Cuban son groups, such as Septeto Habanero, Trio Matamoros, and Los Guaracheros de Oriente, was played on Radio Congo Belge in Léopoldville. I think it is wrong to identify those three groups as Afro-Cuban. They were Cuban, and as such they had a variety of complexions. Los Guaracheros de Oriente were mostly white, Miguel Matamoros (of Trio Matamoros, please User:Revirvlkodlaku read more attentively) was white, while Septeto Habanero were mostly black. The word "mostly" is important because Cuban society was not as segregated as e.g. the USA at that time, by a far cry. Race was as irrelevant as it could be, so I think the text should say In the 1930s and 1940s, the music of Cuban son groups, ... Megustalastrufas (talk) 11:46, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

If no-one has any objections, I shall implement the proposed edit. Megustalastrufas (talk) 09:06, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Areas needing clarification

Hi @EdwinAlden.1995, let me start by commending you on the prodigious amount of content you have recently added to this article—I can only imagine how much background reading and overall time investment this would have required. As you know, I have been proofreading all added content and making small(ish) changes as I saw fit. There are currently two areas within the article that require some clarification. You are likely aware of them, but I thought it might be worthwhile to discuss them here rather than going back and forth within the article itself:
1. The sentence "...which were then reproduced through fusilaje, musical arrangements produced by recorded by African artists." (within the Colombian champeta subsection) seems unclear to me. Initially, it was merely the word "fusilaje" that needed elucidation, as its meaning isn't explained, but now the sentence itself seems confusing.
2. The word "atalaku", mentioned several times within the Ivorian coupé-décalé subsection, isn't defined, and as such, it isn't clear to me that it adds value to the prose.
Thanks again, and I look forward to your input on these points. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 14:20, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi, @Revirvlkodlaku, thanks for bringing up this matter, which allows me to provide further elaboration.

If you possess access to the referenced books, please I kindly request that you peruse a few pages. For instance, within The Guardian's article titled "How African Music Made It Big in Colombia," cited as reference 52, it is underscored how "Amidst the prevalence of samba and salsa across South America, Colombia embraced recordings by Nigeria's Oriental Brothers International Band and Congo's Dr. Nico." The complete name of Dr. Nico is Nicolas Kasanda wa Mikalay, as presented at the sentence's outset. Incidentally, other luminaries such as Tabu Ley Rochereau, M'bilia Bel, Syran Mbenza, Lokassa Ya M’Bongo, Pépé Kallé, Rémy Sahlomon, and Kanda Bongo Man are explicitly referenced in the piece "Colombia’s African Soul," indicated as citation 53.

Lastly, the book titled Let Spirit Speak! Cultural Journeys Through the African Diaspora expounds upon their production facilitated through Fusilaje, spanning pages 40 to 41, denoted as citation 51. If you have any questions, please go for it.

Regarding the Atalaku influence on coupé-décalé, when I edited the article yesterday and added the subsection "coupé-décalé" under the "Influence" heading, I defined atalaku and referenced multiple books and articles that support my assertions in citations 58, 59, and 60. However, it appears that after your edits, the context was altered. I will address this matter later on and work towards enhancing its readability. EdwinAlden.1995 (talk) 15:01, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Revirvlkodlaku.

I forgot to mention that within the same book, "Let Spirit Speak! Cultural Journeys Through the African Diaspora," on the pages I provided, the term "fuselage" is defined. EdwinAlden.1995 (talk) 15:09, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

@EdwinAlden.1995, thank you for the elaboration. However, it isn't for my sake that this clarification should be made but rather that of the article's readers, and thus there is little value in pointing me to reference books—the explication should be plainly included in the article. By the way, please do not depend on the average reader to have access to reference books—I certainly don't. This is why meanings should be made clear within an article. If this is difficult to do, it may be preferable to avoid the use of obscure terms or concepts.

For this reason, I have reverted two of the edits you made subsequent to my last edit and creation of this discussion. Apologies for this, but I didn't think the "clarify" tags should be removed unless the areas in question were properly clear. Cheers! Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 16:24, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Revirvlkodlaku, thanks for the feedback. Your observation is entirely accurate. I just reevaluated the sentence and realized that the term "Fusilaje" is not even defined within the book's context. On page 41, it elucidates,

"Champeta songs began to be reproduced via Fusilaje, with Spanish lyrics being copied over the pistas or musical arrangements recorded by African artists."

Initially, I had misconstrued "Fusilaje" to mean "musical arrangements recorded by African artists," but it pertains to the process by which Champeta songs were recreated: the amalgamation of Spanish lyrics with musical arrangements originally crafted by African artists. I gravely apologize for the iterative edits and ensuing contradictions. I've rectified the situation by excising the problematic text. EdwinAlden.1995 (talk) 17:07, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

@EdwinAlden.1995, thank you, that is much appreciated. I'm glad we could resolve this amicably 😀 Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 17:30, 24 August 2023 (UTC)