Talk:Comparison of European Fascism with Japanese ideology

Not encyclopedic

There are lots of problems with the current article, starting with its title. It just doesn't feel encyclopedic. Actually, neither does the rest of the article. It is not made clear what "Japanese ideology" is, or what the historical contexts of the schools of thought being compared are. Is this an observation based on the Era of Fascism? The present day? Also, there is no wikification here. I hesitate to vote this page for deletion, but I feel a massive amount of work (renaming, rewritting) will be necessary to salvage this page. Frankly I don't know where to start. --Iceager 30 June 2005 02:52 (UTC)

Merge proposal, points gleaned from this text

This text is not encyclopedic, however some of its content may be. I propose that the main points be merged to the Japanese fascism article and that this one be tagged as AFD. To try to make this list succinct, I haven't separated it into general fascism and Nazi parts. Here are the main points I've identified:

• Cultural context of the development of Japanese fascism (JF) and lack of direct European origin in JF's development, especially in its nationalism, militarism, authoritarianism, historical revisionism, use of ancient symbolism, collectivism, stratification of society (emperor, nobility, landowners, merchants, industrialists, agricultralists, etc.), and consensus building.

• The use of the above as well as corporatism, censorship, propaganda, and violence for the sole purpose of the glorification of the state [and the leader, in the cases of Hirohito and Hitler, I suppose] in a state of conformity.

• Differences in political, cultural, religious, racial (etc?) policies vis à European fascism, especially nazism. [the racial difference is contradicted later]

• Distinct periods of development of JF: "Yamato fascism [sources?!]" lasting until the Meiji Period; [Where did Taishō go?]; Showa Period nationalism lasting through 1945.

• Some similarities between the messianic role of the Shōwa Emperor and the roles of Adolf Hitler in Nazi Germany and the clerical fascist regime under Mussolini.

• Similarities of élites deriving power from grassroots/populist support among the authoritarian regimes in Europe and Japan [evidently ignoring much of Spain, Portugal, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Romania, etc.]

• Similarities in how the military-industrial complex remained under the control of an individual or clique, and the popular support of militarist policy and activity [however, this doesn't seem like much of a similarity to me; the Japanese sovereign/head of state Hirohito didn't actually control the military directly if at all]; the existence of "responsibility up the ranks, and authority down the ranks"

• Aryan racial supremacy is similar to Nihonjinron and the destiny of the Japanese to rule Asia [although I think the approach was more along the lines of The White Man's Burden]

• Negativism of EF and JF: anti-liberal, anti-socialist, anti-communist, anti-democratic, anti-egalitarian, anti-[foreign] religious

• Commonality of socialism (in so far as state control) alongside nationalism in both EF and JF, and the economic impacts thereof

• The use of militarism to recover/compensate for previous losses in the military arena as well as to unify the state [during feudal Japan]

• The use of medical experiments on those considered inferior, and wholesale massacres in excess of normal conquest

• The belief in sacred soil and a sacred duty to protect it [Nazi/JF commonality]

• The creation of puppet states [Manchuria/Vichy similarity], Lebensraum [colonism], and expansion of economic activity in those puppet states for the benefit of the aggressor state

• Use of the term "fascism" to describe disparate right wing ideologies rather indiscriminately and pejoratively. This is compounded by the lack of a coherent "fascist core" which would be the base of all fascist movements.

• A proposal that JF be considered more of an alternative right-wing ideology than a fascism in European ideological terms, especially in light of the often mutually exclusive ideologies of fascism in general and nazism

One bone I'd like to pick is that while JF (or "Japanese [fascist?] ideology") apparently has (uncited) roots in Yamato Japan, similar ancient origins of European varieties of fascism in Greek thought are ignored. Another problem that I find is that the comparisons are limited to Japan's main Axis allies, Germany and Italy, although several other nations have had veritably fascist movements or governments (Portugal, Spain, Austria, Croatia, Bulgaria, etc.) that did not all act in the same way. In fact, there may be more parallels between (perhaps Spanish) clerical fascism and JF than German and Italian fascisms and JF.

I think that if there can be some sort of citation found for these claims (or any others I may have left out or misunderstood), these should be moved to the Japanese fascism page to keep things simple. I don't see a real reason to keep a long discourse on a separate page without much context. Perhaps this article may even be fit for AFD. Any thoughts? JFHJr (㊟) 16:44, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Rewrite

As it stands, this is not really an encyclopedia article, but a list of facts. At the bare minimum, reassmebling the varied pieces into some coherent framework is needed. Isopropyl 03:32, 14 April 2006 (UTC)