Talk:Commodore (Royal Navy)

Correct version of loop?

Hi, can someone knowledgeable about ranks and insignia tell me, if the Commodore should have his loop sitting on or under the thick golden band on the sleeve?

I have made two vector images, Image:UK-Navy-OF6.svg (loop on top) and Image:UK-Navy-OF6-B.svg (loop under). SVGs can be rendered natively if you click on the image in the image desc. page.

Greentubing 21:10, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

The article says "Commodores second class wore a single 1.75 in. wide row of lace BELOW a ring measuring 1.75 in. in diameter on both sleeve and shoulder-board (and this is the insignia worn by modern commodores)."

This is correct, and I'd be surprised by any claim that it isn't. See http://www.geocities.com/commentariat/rank_images/pic_cdre_brd.gif

Possibly better reference http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/training-and-people/rn-life/uniforms-and-badges-of-rank/ 122.107.58.27 (talk) 04:30, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Unsourced Material

Article has been tagged for needing sources for well over a year. Please feel free to reincorporate the below material into the article with proper referencing. Doniago (talk) 12:29, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

History

==History== The appointment of Commodore dates to the mid-17th century: it was first used in the time of William III. There was a need for officers to command squadrons, but it was not deemed desirable to create new admirals (as Post-Captains were promoted to Rear-Admiral in order of seniority). Captains assigned squadron command were given the title of Commodore, but it was not an actual rank. The officer so designated kept his place on the list of Captains. In 1748 it was established that Captains serving as Commodores were equal to Brigadier-Generals in the Army. Commodores could revert to the rank of Captain at the end of their posting (and Captains could be promoted directly to Rear-Admiral without ever having served as a Commodore). The Royal Navy Commodore was eventually split into two classes. Those of the first class had a Captain under them to command their ship and were allocated one-eighth of all prize money earned by ships under their command. Those of the second class commanded their own ship as well as the squadron. In 1783, Commodores of the first class were allowed to wear the uniform of a Rear-Admiral, a distinction which continued with some variation until the two classes of Commodore were consolidated in 1958. By the 20th century, Commodores did not just command seagoing units (the naval barracks in the three main naval bases of Devonport, Portsmouth and Chatham were all commanded by Commodores, for instance) and the appointment of Commodore could also be held by specialist officers in certain positions as well as by line officers. The Royal Air Force rank of air commodore was derived from the Royal Navy rank of commodore in 1919. In 1996, Commodore was made a substantive rank in the Royal Navy. It had previously been an appointment, with the holder a Captain, reverting to the status of Captain at the end of the appointment.

Historical

Historically, commodore was an appointment conferred on senior captains and was split into two grades, commodores first and second class. Typically a commodore would command a number of ships, for example a destroyer squadron. A commodore second class would command their own ship as well as the formation while a commodore first class would have a flag captain to run his ship. Commodores first class, while wearing the sleeve stripes of a rear admiral, had gold lace-covered epaulettes with a crown, two stars and an anchor (also worn by other commodores but only with formal uniforms). They flew a swallow-tailed pennant with the St George's cross, but without the disc that appeared on the pennant of a second class commodore. Commodores second class wore a single 1.75-inch-wide (44 mm) row of lace below a ring (known in naval regulations as a curl) measuring 1.75 inches in diameter on both sleeve and shoulder-board. Their uniforms were otherwise the same as for captains.

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