Talk:Cohen crime family

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Article issues

I stumbled upon this article while researching the Hollywood mobster Johnny Stompanato, a Mickey Cohen associate. I am troubled by the absence of footnotes for large stretches of text and have concerns about its factual accuracy.

While conducting the Stompanato research I found no references to the existence of a "Cohen Crime Family." While he had people working for him I found no such nomenclature used, either in the older sources or newer ones. I accessed online The Mafia Encyclopedia, one of the major cited sources here, and while there is an entry for Cohen there is no entry or even a mention of a Cohen crime family. The only reference to a crime family operating in Los Angeles in his era was a Mafia family headed by a man named Dragna, according to the Encycloedia. The Dragna group was not an affiliate of Cohen but in violent competition with Cohen.

Unless I can find or someone can point to some substantiation for a "crime family" actually existing, using that terminology, and not being OR or utilized in non--WP:V websites, we will have to address this situation by renaming at the very least. Deletion is one option but I think that the sourcing does substantiate an organization of some kind, not a "family." Also, as tagged, sourcing is a major issue here no matter what the name of this article is. Coretheapple (talk) 13:57, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

@Coretheapple: I wish you would put more effort into researching cited references before jumping to contradictory conclusions. In the 1 November 2019 version of the Stompanato biography, reference #12, Board Lists Chief Cohen Gang Members doesn't use the term "crime family" but it does say that Cohen runs a "gang" or a "mob". The main article on the topic, titled "organized crime", says A criminal organization can also be referred to as an outfit, a gang, crime family, mafia, mob, (crime) ring, or syndicate; the network, subculture, and community of criminals involved in organized crime may be referred to as the underworld or gangland. Renaming to "gang" or "mob" would have been better than WP:Deletion by redirection, though I'm unclear on what the difference is. The terms seem to be synonyms to me, more or less. That cited source says Cohen's mob consisted of about a dozen men, "in the strictest sense". – wbm1058 (talk) 17:43, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

A gang may be referred to as a crime family, but not by Wikipedia editors, but by reliable sources Given the obviously irreparable article issues I have nominated for deletion. Coretheapple (talk) 17:37, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

There ya go: Google Ngram for gang and mob. – wbm1058 (talk) 18:48, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

@Wbm1058: Since you have undone the article redirection and restored the article to its previous state, prior to its redirection. As a result, I have reassessed it, because simply reverting my previous edit did not properly restore the assessment as it stood before the article was redirected. It only restored it to the bot assessment that picked up that this article had been redirected, anyway. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 10:31, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

References

Merger

I've proposed that this article be merged with Mickey Cohen. The discussion is at Talk:Mickey_Cohen#Proposed_merge_with_Cohen_crime_family. Coretheapple (talk) 14:26, 2 November 2019 (UTC)