Talk:Coat of arms of Spain

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Historical Spanish Coats of arms

I added a section with the picture and explanation of the most important historical coats of arms of Spain. --Maurice27 19:42, 6 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Nice work, and welcome to WP:HV. I've reassessed the article as B-class. It looks very promising and the number and quality of images is good. Unfortunately, we have only a single reference. If you have the material at hand, please add more references, if at all possible as inline references. If you can find some free versions of historical depictions of this insignia it would be wonderful (I am aware that this is no easy task. I'm working on a similar article myself.) Just my thoughts. Valentinian ^{T / C} 20:03, 6 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Given the Spanish Empire, I presume this insignia spawned a number of related arms throughout the empire. If you could find information on some of those, that would be great. A minor point is that I would personally avoid using the term "coat" alone as in "the coat of ..." but "the arms of ..." is more common. Articles on WP:HV also normally use the spelling "Coat of arms of ..." except in the first line of text. Valentinian ^{T / C} 20:10, 6 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The lion on the top right corner should be purpure like on the coat of León or red but not pink. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.190.128.254 (talk) 16:14, August 22, 2007 (UTC)

I have reworked the two parts on the House of Austria. The material in there is based on what I know for the Iberian peninsula and the Netherlands, but I presume more variants can be found in Italy (Napels, Sicily, Milan?) and Latin America. It may be useful for heraldists from these parts to add the relevant versions, clearly marking which belong to which parts of the Spanish Monarchy. A more extensive list of references (I have added one for the Netherlands) would certainly be useful. Richardot 16:38, 13 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The inclusion of the arms Philip the Fair and Charles I/V certainly clarify the text. Dare I say though that Tyrol is lacking in the inescutcheon of Philip's arms? And that in the arms of Charles I/V the enté en point of Granada should not be on the whole of the coat of arms, but solely in the quarterings for Spain (thus, of course, appearing twice). Richardot (talk) 12:08, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hard to say, because that part of the article completely lacks sources. Judging from the succession boxes on the Charles I article, Charles inherited Tyrol from Maximilian I, Holy Roman Emperor, not from Philip. I also have an image (supposedly an authentic drawing from Charles's reign) that shows Granada on the point of the shield instead of the quarters. Neither of these is a reliable source, but it's better than nothing. -- I. Pankonin (t/c) 08:46, 12 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Change Historical Spanish Coats of arms

I change PNG Format images to SVG Format, wrong position of the Flanders and Tyrol blazons in Philip V and Charles III Coats of arms in PNG Images, See [1] and images of Coins and Reliefs in [2] and other versions of the Spanish lesser arms are in SVG Format Buho09 (t) 18:19, 9 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Official Design

Piority for the official design for the Coat of arms, Check it at the sources. It's more important show the official arms, the quality of the image is also fine, SVG Format.

Gordon09 (t) 02:32, 3 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's not the official design, but it follows the official description. "Shield offices in Spain, Mazon version, the one that corresponds with the official description"

The superior version also follows this design:

Adelbrecht (talk) 14:26, 19 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Apart from the heraldic description in the royal decree of 1981 establishing the official design of the coat of arms of Spain (shape, color). The proposed design is not better than the official. Also following is incorrect Heard rules for using more than one shade of color for the same color and use color gradients, in addition to not meet any standards not those set by consensus..--Miguillen (talk) 15:41, 19 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Other corrections suggested by heraldic experts (File Author)

Corrections suggested by heraldic experts there were the shape of the inescutcheon and the size and design of the figures, I'm learning English so I can't write so well, please add this information in the note. Thanks (the file author) --Heralder (talk) 13:50, 22 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Who are the heraldic experts? this appears to be uncited WP:OR. Additionally, it does not belong in the infobox. Tinynanorobots (talk) 05:07, 1 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Official design

I agree, Piority for the official design for the Coat of arms, Check it at the sources. It's more important show the official arms, the quality of the image is also fine, SVG Format. User:Heralder Author of:

Coat of Arms of Spain (Acording Official Description but Unofficial Design)
Coat of Arms of Spain (Right Heraldic Design)

--Heralder (talk) 16:22, 22 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

while blazon trumps design, and that picture has a brighter color, and easy to see. Lets use that one, and move the proposed design to the bottom of the article, with a discussion of it. Tinynanorobots (talk) 00:05, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Tinynanorobots, here you have seen that the use of the official design is strongly recommended, please keep it in use Rastrojo _(D•ES) 11:59, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand what you mean. Tinynanorobots (talk) 19:01, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The coat of arms of Spain is regulated by Royal Decree 2964/1981 [3] Trasamundo (talk) 22:28, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The colors in the national coat of arms of Spain are specified in the Royal Decree 2267/1982 [4]. However, the consolidated regulations on flags and standards, guidons, insignias and badges published in electronic format on the site of the Official State Gazette [5] include a color image where it is possible to visualize how the coat of arms is supposed to look like. Clearly that does not correspond to the image shown in the Wikipedia article.179.208.240.220 (talk) 20:44, 3 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

pantone colors

Where is the source for those colors? Its not really heraldic to have them, so unless there is a source where the appropriate government authority says these are the pantone colors that should be used, then this should not be included. There should be a differentiation between standardization of colors for government use, and the color standard enforced by the government. Tinynanorobots (talk) 00:02, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The colours are regulated by Royal Decree 2267/1982 [6] Trasamundo (talk) 22:31, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The only part of that document I could read was the hatching on the coat of arms, which tells me that the version there is the same arms as depicted in both

and

. For some reason, it has been insisted that

is official and

is wrong. If you could please translate the relevant parts, that would be helpful. Tinynanorobots (talk) 03:34, 3 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The table clearly specifies the colour coordinates of the coat of arms so the only version is Image:Escudo de España (mazonado).svg. You are the only one who is changing something that has been agreed before. Oh, btw here you have an extra law that describe the use of the official design 1 Rastrojo _(D•ES) 15:15, 3 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The coat of arms of Spain is not regulated by heraldic rules or designs but it is regulated by an official norm established by the Royal Decree 2964/1981. When a coat of arms in force is only known by a description and no design is represented, then it may be subject to some interpretation, but even in this case, the government establishes a model for official use. If the Royal Decree provides a design that is not only described but it can be seen, I do not understand the question: the official coat of arms of Spain can be seen in the official Spanish State gazette and it has to be drawn exactly as it appears in this official gazette.

The charges shown in the Spanish official coat of arms cannot be chosen based on their artistic beauty but in function to the adjustment with the design shown in the royal decree, even if such a design is awful. It cannot be displayed or any lion, any castle, any chains, any crown, any badge, any Pillars of Hercules, any division of the field... in any shape or form; they have to be adjusted to the design shown in the royal decree. There is no interpretation. An encyclopedia that has as a basic policy of verifiability and no original research cannot affirm that a coat of arms which does not conform exactly to the design shown in the legislation is the official coat of arms of Spain, it cannot establich that a coat of arms, which is a particular interpretation by a user of wikipedia, and such especulative coat of arms is not used anywhere in Spain is an official coat of arms in Spain.

Heralder's design (

) does not correspond to the official model shown in the official gazette (

) and therefore it is not possible to affirm that such design is an official representation. As simple as that. Trasamundo (talk) 18:40, 3 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The design in the legislation you should me did not use colors, but hatching. I finally was able to find something readable. You must understand that Spain is unique in this, and it is really frustrating when a fellow editor reverts and refuses to discuss. Additionally, I was looking for pantone numbers, but the gazette gives CEILAB numbers. It is also confusing because websites cited for the colors show a different tones then

. All I am trying to do is verify that the one here is official. as for the changes I made, you should read WP:Bold and WP:NBD and certainly WP:CON. Of course now that I know what the law is, I am wondering to what extent does

comply with it? Tinynanorobots (talk) 23:20, 3 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Royal decree establishes the colours using the system CIELAB and CIE 1931, in addition to that the manual of the institutional image of the General Administration of the State approved by the ministerial order of 27 September 1999 establishes the colours PANTONE (p.6) This information was removed [7] for you, so you should have read Template:Citation needed. Trasamundo (talk) 17:15, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I think the hues are a bit off from those. btw, do you know what the difference in usage between the the coat of arms of Spain, and the coat of arms of the King of Spain? because Juan Carlos is listed as the armiger for the coat of arms of Spain, but it may be that the Spainish government uses this version, and he uses his own version? again, thanks for discussing with me. Tinynanorobots (talk) 22:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The king of Spain uses his own coat of arms (

), for palaces, vessels, vehicles..., as it is regulated by the Royal decree 1511/1977. Trasamundo (talk) 18:38, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Official Coat of Arms of Spain

Does the Spanish Coat of Arms have official pantone values? If it does then it is the only one that does. The source cited for the blazon quotes Spanish law, which does not list any pantone values. Similarly, different tones are used by different parts of the Spanish government(The King, the senate) and no source has been provided saying that one variation of gules or any tincture is more official than the another. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tinynanorobots (talk • contribs) 2011-10-02 19:37:02

From the Spanish language WP I get reference to a Royal Decree 2267/1982, from september 3 (Real Decreto 2267/1982, de 3 de septiembre) - http://noticias.juridicas.com/base_datos/Admin/rd2267-1982.html - established official CIELAB and CIE-1931 colours for the coat of arms (escudo). No Pantone.

The same colours are referenced at - http://www.spain-flag.eu/coat-of-arms.htm - which also references the existence of official Pantone colour definition in the Institutional Image Handbook (Manual de Identidad Institucional). I do not know how reliable this source is.

In a short search, there are official news, dating from 2007, that it will be created - http://www.lamoncloa.gob.es/serviciosdeprensa/notasprensa/mpr/_2007/ntpr20070813_logo.htm - but I could not find the document itself.

In short, there seems to be a Pantone definition, but the sources are slim. - Nabla (talk) 09:38, 11 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Based on what I see here, the CIE colors are well sourced, the pantone less well sourced. It is unclear what this RFC asks. Hipocrite (talk) 13:42, 11 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Probably worth asking at the heraldry and vexillology project. Rich Farmbrough, 19:16, 21 October 2011 (UTC).[reply]

I have already answered with the sources on 4 October [8], as it can be read several paragraphs above. Trasamundo (talk) 18:59, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Why are there so many "Lion" symbols?

96.19.152.171 (talk) 03:59, 1 August 2013 (UTC)Could all of those "Lion"/ "Leo" symbols mean nothing? I would suggest that they mean something other than the solutions of the "experts"! I would also suggest that at least one of them symbolized "Lyon" as in France, and another of them meant the great port in Athens, Greece, AKA Piraeus! Ronald L. Hughes[reply]

-Well; the Lion in the Arms of Spain is an example of 'canting Arms'-in this instance; they represent the Province and former Kingdom of Leon.

JWULTRABLIZZARD (talk) 20:16, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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