Talk:Climate of Northern Ireland

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A fact from Climate of Northern Ireland appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 24 May 2008, and was viewed approximately 2,116 times (disclaimer) (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the influence of the Gulf Stream on the climate of Northern Ireland gives the landscape of Northern Ireland (pictured) its green colour?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2008/May.

Wikipedia

why?

why is this article necessary? Surely this information would be better contained in Climate of Ireland. 86.40.181.112 (talk) 02:15, 24 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's presumably poltically motivated given the current existence of northern ireland as a separate state to the republic of ireland. Nature surely doesn't care about such petty human boundaries: Ireland (Hibernia) is one island, and differs from north to south climate-wise even less than the island of Britannia does.

Climate of Northern Ireland: "Ever so slightly colder on average than further south in Ireland." Geez. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.45.14.42 (talk) 03:44, 24 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please desist from political commentary. As you have stated, the Republic of Ireland is a different country to Northern Ireland, like it or loathe it. Therefore, the national meterological service is different (Met Eireann in RoI, Met Office in NI), meaning that the statistics are different. The article "Climate of Ireland" is actually about the Republic of Ireland, not the whole island. EJF (talk) 09:42, 24 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The very existence of the article is political commentary.

And actually, the climate of ireland article is clearly about the whole island, as you can see from the graphs etc. What's more, Met Eireann routinely covers the whole island of ireland. http://www.met.ie/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.45.14.42 (talk) 18:55, 24 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No, their statistics do not - they do not have weather stations in Northern Ireland. Therefore all the statistics in the Climate in Ireland article are different to those in the Climate of Northern Ireland article. How is the climate of Ireland article "clearly about the whole island"? Simply, it isn't, check the statistics. I see you mention the graphs - there is one graph, which covers the whole British Isles. Are you therefore saying that because Climate of Ireland has this graph covering the whole British Isles, that Climate of Scotland is redundant to Climate of Ireland? As you can see if you read the article, there are considerable differences in the climate and statistics of the two countries, NI and RoI - and the article was created because of the need for climate articles that accurately show climatic conditions in the Home Nations. Climate of England and Climate of Wales are coming soon as well, am I allowed to write those? EJF (talk) 10:17, 25 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Merge proposal

I suggest this article be merged with Climate of Ireland. The arguments have already been pointed out above. This is a geographical article about weather and climate. Nature is not confined by political boundaries. Met Éireann very often covers the whole island, and combining their data with those of the Met Office shouldn't be difficult at all. Furthermore, both articles already have very similar information.
Opinions? ~Asarlaí 15:33, 7 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Northern Ireland and The Republic of Ireland are two different countries. If you guys have the view that just due to political reasons it is keeping the article about the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland being merged then i think you should think about the climate stats for places like Andorra! How come Andorras climate stats is not merged with Spain or France? Different country therefore different climate pages. This is also a stupid argument. Just leave it the way it is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.154.208.132 (talk) 16:42, 31 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Just merge it and call the article Climate of Éire, as Éire is the Irish name for the island of Ireland. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.191.230.186 (talk) 21:12, 17 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think we should either merge these 2 or remove the templates. They've been there for over a year. My personal take is that they should be merged, but I understand the cultural sensitivities, and certainly am not pushing for an unnecessary fight. The Geography of Ireland article covers the island and I think the climate article should be similar. Fmph (talk) 18:26, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Scientifically there is no reason to treat N.Irl and Rep Irl seperately. The climate, biota, geology etc can all reasonably be regarded as being the same, though distinct from Britain. However wikipedia is a human invention, and humans like their categories. If someone wants to maintain a separate page on Northern Ireland then so be it. Making mountains out of molehills, oceans out of puddles is a characteristic of sectarian divides, so see it for what it is, not for what it purports to be. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.157.1.184 (talk) 09:52, 13 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Merged with Climate of Ireland

This article has been merged with Climate of Ireland. This brings it in line with the Geography of Ireland page, focusing on the island as a whole. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Whereabouts987 (talk • contribs) 08:01, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It is fine to have a Climate of Ireland article but it is not OK to delete the Climate of Northern Ireland page. As Northern Ireland is a constituent country of the United Kingdom, why should it not have its own climate page? The averages for Scotland are different to the averages of the other Home Nations and the Republic of Ireland has different data for Northern Ireland. The climate may be similar on each side of the border but climate information is more useful and interesting when categorised on a country by country basis.

It would of course be useful to have an additional article by geographical region for those who are interested in that perspective. It is also useful for example to have more granular climate data, for example, for counties and towns. Seamus48 (talk) 16:12, 5 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

January 2012 merge dispute

As I see it there are 2 parts to this dispute:

Should Climate of Northern Ireland remain merged into Climate of Ireland? and
If so, then what extra info from the pre-merge article should be added to the CoI article?

I shall address each separately.Fmph (talk) 07:34, 6 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Do we need/ want separate articles

Personally I would say no. Climate follows geography. One article for entire island of Ireland.Fmph (talk) 07:34, 6 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Me too. As far as I can tell the only reasons for wanting a separate article are political, and those are not good reasons William M. Connolley (talk) 09:31, 6 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This section is purely political. There is no question that the climate page of a sovereign state should or shouldn't exist. Please stop removing this page. As I say I am very happy to have an all-island climate page in addition, however as Northern Ireland is a sovereign country it requires its own climate page. Seamus48 (talk) 17:19, 24 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Seamus - your opening gambit - This section is purely political - is a bad faith accusation against those (especially me) who are trying to sort out a possible problem. It's not purely political. Climate is not a political issue. In effect, by insisting it's your way or no way, you are the one bringing politics into this. You need to rein in the rhetoric and start using persuasive arguments. Fmph (talk) 09:16, 25 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Your purpose is purely to irritate and you know fine well that there is an international border between the Republic and Northern Ireland. Why does every other country have its own climate page then? Should Scotland not have a page? What about England or Wales for that matter? You are a republican who wants to delete the Northern Ireland climate page because you want to pretend that Northern Ireland doesn't exist.

Seamus-this is about consensus not political opinion. The consensus on the project is that wrt Ireland-related articles, where the subject matter is in the general area of the physical sciences (geography, climate, etc) there should generally be only one article covering the whole island of Ireland. On subjects relating to man made objects or organisations, we split into 2 articles, one for Northern Ireland and the other covering the rest. That is a very stable convention and consensus here. You need to persuade other editors that climate is somehow outside of that convention. and btw, there is no Climate of England article, nor is there a Climate of Wales. Why don't you ask yourself 'why is that'? Difficult to blame that on the Fenians. Fmph (talk) 07:56, 26 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What consensus are you talking about? Yourself and other republicans? There is no consensus to delete the NI page, and other editors have made this quite clear, however you have bulldozed their objections to your silly plan to delete the country. People in NI are not interested in ROI and the climate of that country. You know very well that the redirect to the ROI climate is a deletion of ALL of the relevant content of the NI page and therefore to claim that it is being merged because of some convention is a total and utter fabrication. You are obviously a child. See Climate of Scotland Seamus48 (talk) 10:42, 26 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No. I can find no sources (reliable or otherwise) which suggest that the climate is any different North or South. A separate article would therefore be a duplicate and/or fork, and would exist purely for political reasons. Clearly there are subjects for which separate North and South articles clearly should and do exist, but they do because they apply differently to the two countries. Climate is not shown to be in that category, and there's no case for separating it. RichardOSmith (talk) 07:48, 25 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

- No Richard, by the same absurd argument, should Luxembourg not have a climate page because it is too small and a redirect to the page for Germany would suffice? It is utter nonsense to say the existence of the Northern Ireland page is political, of course it is, it is a sovereign nation that is entirely separate from the Republic of Ireland. Both countries are served by different national weather services. The weather service of the Republic does not have weather stations in Northern Ireland. Deleting the NI page is an aggressive political act.

For example, the maximum/minimum temperatures recorded are different for the Republic and for Northern Ireland so what gives you the right to delete one over the other? Seamus48 (talk) 22:15, 25 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The max and min temperatures will be different for the N and S of Cambridgeshire; that doesn't mean we need a climate of Cambridgeshire page. As far as I can tell, there is no substantial climatological difference between N and S Ireland. The only significant difference is political. That doesn't rule out a CONI page, but it does mean that your justification for it has to be political William M. Connolley (talk) 10:48, 26 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Extra info to be merged

I think there may be a case for adding more info from the orig article to the CoI one. I've already added some info about the lack of tornados, although the original ref for this is now a deadlink so I haven't moved that as well. But I'm open to suggestions as to what else should be moved.Fmph (talk) 07:34, 6 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, there should be more information about the Northern Ireland climate in the all-Ireland climate page as well as having a climate page for Northern Ireland. Seamus48 (talk) 17:20, 24 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

PLEASE RESTORE THIS ARTICLE

The contents of this page have been replaced with a redirect to Ireland without consensus and against the wishes of editors who have clearly stated objections above. The page has been repeatedly targetted by several users, who may be sock puppets of the same user, who wish to force their will on the matter. If I revert from the redirect, I will be blocked for edit warring. Please revert and restore the contents of this page and also Climate of northern ireland (lower case) to redirect here. Seamus48 (talk) 11:49, 26 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]