Talk:Cliff Christl

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Review: November 1, 2024. (Reviewed version).

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A fact from Cliff Christl appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 9 April 2024 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Cliff Christl, who became the Green Bay Packers team historian in 2014, estimated that he had recorded more than 250 oral histories with past players and coaches since the 1990s?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2024/April. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Cliff Christl.

Wikipedia

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Launchballer talk 09:52, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

~~... that Green Bay Packers team historian Cliff Christl has recorded more than 250 oral histories with past players and coaches since he started in the 1990s?~~ Source: "I probably got over 250 oral histories of players and coaches that I started doing in the 1990s for work."
- Reviewed: Qurna Queen and Hubertus, Hereditary Prince of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha

Moved to mainspace by Gonzo fan2007 (talk). Self-nominated at 18:39, 18 March 2024 (UTC).[reply]

Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 37 past nominations.

Post-promotion hook changes will be logged on the talk page; consider watching the nomination until the hook appears on the Main Page.

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

Cited:
Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: The 250 count is from Christl himself, so it seems that it should be attributed to him. Perhaps something like "Cliff Christl estimated that he has recorded more than 250..." The last portion since he started in the 1990s can be misinterpretted that these were all while he was the team's historian. Also, there's no context in the bio about the 1990s period, to provide background on why he started accumulating these. —Bagumba (talk) 06:30, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ALT1: ... that Cliff Christl, who would become the Green Bay Packers team historian in 2014, estimated that he has recorded more than 250 oral histories with past players and coaches since the 1990s? Bagumba. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 14:58, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Gonzo fan2007: The "since the 1990s" part still needs to be added to the article too. Mulling it over, I'm not sure if the average reader has the context of whether 250 over a 30 year period is impressive or not. As an alternative, how about a hook of Christl coming out retirement after 7 yrs and already doing research as a hobby before becoming their historian: "I have been retired for seven years and I don't believe I have had a boring day in that entire period," Christl said. "I loved retirement, but researching Packers' history was my hobby. That's where I was spending a lot of my time. So, why not take advantage of all the information I've collected and preserve it and share it with others? That just seemed to make sense at this point in time in my life."[1]—Bagumba (talk) 08:20, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure how I missed the 1990s part, thought it was already in there. I have added it accordingly. If you have another ALT, I am happy to consider it. However, I do think documenting the Packers for over 30 years, even before he became historian, while accumulating over 250 oral histories (which are fairly intense processes) is interesting enough to the general reader. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 16:22, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Gonzo fan2007: Ok, your prose changes satisfy ALT1. For the retirement alternative, it would be something roughly like "Cliff Christl was retired and researching the Green Bay Packers' history as a hobby before he was hired to be their historian?" The hobby part would need to be added to the article.—Bagumba (talk) 17:15, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bagumba, I think I still prefer the first alt. I can request another opinion if you are unwilling to approve it. Just let me know. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 16:18, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ALT1 approved. @Gonzo fan2007: I could also add the ALT and ask for another reviewer, but your hook is interesting enough to defer to you as the nominator. Thanks for your patience.—Bagumba (talk) 16:27, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

Passed. SSSB (talk) 22:16, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:Cliff Christl/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Gonzo fan2007 (talk · contribs) 15:38, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: SSSB (talk · contribs) 21:34, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think I'll take this one on. It's nice and short, hopefully I can complete my initial review before I turn in. SSSB (talk) 21:34, 31 October 2024 (UTC) GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria[reply]

Is it well written?
A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:

B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:
Is it verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check?
A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:

B. Reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose):

C. It contains no original research:

D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:
Is it broad in its coverage?
A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:

B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):
Is it neutral?
It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:
Is it stable?
It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:
Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?
A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:

B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
Overall:
Pass or Fail:

Comments

Copyvio detecter shows no issues. SSSB (talk) 22:44, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I get that we might not have any images of Christl himself. But can we find an image relating to his work. Maybe the logo of the Green Bay Packers hall of fame, with a caption describing how he contributed to it? SSSB (talk) 22:44, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- File:Green Bay Packers Hall of Fame Logo.png is a non-free media, and thus wouldn't be able to be used in this article. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 19:34, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"who is the team historian" we need an {{as of}} in there please. SSSB (talk) 22:44, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- I have purposefully avoided "as of" statements and typically don't see this for statements about someone's current job in the NFL. As an example, we don't say "As of 2024, Jordan Love is a quarterback for the Green Bay Packers." « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 19:34, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  Yeah, seems reasonable. SSSB (talk) 22:14, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Source 4 needs to be recited for the first sentence in the "Journalism career" section. SSSB (talk) 22:44, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Added. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 19:34, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Source 9 mentions he also won awards for best national sports story twice. This would be a nice detail to add. SSSB (talk) 22:44, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Added. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 19:34, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Source 9 mentions that he briefly worked on the Wisconsin High School Football beat. This might be a good thing to add to show career progression and why he was chosen to move to the Packers beat. SSSB (talk) 22:44, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Added. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 19:34, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Could include that he also had a column while he was a journalist. SSSB (talk) 22:44, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Added. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 19:34, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Should be 2007. SSSB (talk) 22:44, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 19:34, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A really interesting read. Only the third, 4th and last bullet points are required for promotion, the rest are just suggestions. I would be WP:BOLD and do them myself, but really I should be in bed. Will place on hold pending those minor adjustments. SSSB (talk) 22:44, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you SSSB! All comments addressed or responded to. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 19:34, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent. Congratulations on good article number 30. SSSB (talk) 22:15, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.