Talk:Cleveland Charge

National Basketball Association: Cleveland Cavaliers Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject National Basketball Association, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the NBA on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.National Basketball AssociationWikipedia:WikiProject National Basketball AssociationTemplate:WikiProject National Basketball AssociationNBA articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by Cleveland Cavaliers task force.

Basketball

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Basketball, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Basketball on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BasketballWikipedia:WikiProject BasketballTemplate:WikiProject BasketballBasketball articles

United States: Ohio Low‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	Ohio portal This article is supported by WikiProject Ohio.

Team logo

JonRidinger, Sabbatino, all others- WP:NFCCP#3b and WP:FILESIZE are both clear: lower resolution versions of non-free files are always preferred. Why is a .SVG file needed for a copyrighted logo when there is already a .PNG version of comparable quality? Anything over 300px for the infobox is excessive. Dozens of past discussions at WP:NFCR & WP:FFD conclude the same. Levdr1lp / talk 17:44, 19 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

SVG displays better across all mediums since it can be resized without losing resolution. See WP:IUP#FORMAT ("Drawings, icons, logos, maps, flags and other such images are preferably uploaded in SVG format as vector images. Images with large, simple, and continuous blocks of color which are not available as SVG should be in PNG format.") and countless examples such as at Cleveland Cavaliers, Cleveland Browns, and Kent State Golden Flashes, which also use SVG versions of their copyrighted logos. Sabbatino placed the proper tag on the logo file to have the display version reduced, though it's not like the current SVG version (512x215) is excessively large. Fairly normal procedure for any kind of logo. You'll find many, if not most, professional and collegiate sport logos and even university seals are in SVG. --JonRidinger (talk) 18:22, 19 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

NHL, NFL, NBA, NBA D-League – all teams have SVG logos. MLB – 3 or 4 SVG logos are missing. Sames goes for any other league, tournament, team or even company, for example, Coca-Cola, which is even larger. SVG logos are preferred instead of PNG. And that's why some templates and bots exist – to keep everything in order. I also see that previous SVG logo was removed "thanks to you" and I don't know if you had any discussion with the user who objected your action, but it's obvious that there are some polices, which you or anyone else don't know. – Sabbatino (talk) 18:42, 19 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

What you both seem to be missing here is the scalability of the .SVG file. While its "nominal" size (width) is 512px, the original file does not have resolution in the sense of other, pixelated file types and can be enlarged many times over. The largest .PNG version derived ("rasterized") from this file is 1280px. That's excessive. The original .SVG file can be enlarged even further, and there's nothing to stop anyone from deriving an absurdly high resolution version of this copyrighted logo directly from Wikipedia (e.g., enlarge .SVG version to its max, take screenshot, convert to .PNG or other file type). Whatever improvement in image quality exists on mobile devices (which is what I assume you're referring to, JR) is negligible compared to clear violation of WP:NFCCP#3b. Policy with legal considerations would seem to supersede format recommendations. (Sabbatino- I will assume you made an error in comparing the copyrighted Canton Charge logo to the public domain text logo for Coca-Cola which falls below the threshold of originality and is therefore not relevant to a discussion on non-free files.) Levdr1lp / talk 02:13, 20 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, we're fully aware of that and you aren't the first person to raise this concern (see this discussion from 2014, which basically came to no consensus). This isn't my or Sabbatino's first rodeo with copyrighted logos in SVG format either. And no, the difference is not negligible across devices. I have seen PNG versions that look quite good on the desktop version, but look pixelated on my iPhone and Kindle, especially if the background is clear. Again, the preference is SVG where it is available, and precedence already exists for countless other logos. Be sure to read WP:IMAGERES and please note the tags already present at File:Canton Charge logo.svg, including Template:SVG-Logo. Also check out Category:NBA logos, Category:Major League Baseball logos, Category:National Football League logos, and Category:National Hockey League logos, and note how many have SVG versions. If you have issue with NFCC, that would be something to take up at Wikipedia talk:Non-free content since hundreds of articles, both in and out of sport, use vector images of copyrighted logos. --JonRidinger (talk) 04:20, 20 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

SVG preference is the main factor here. You throw all those policies, but don't see what's written that if SVG is available it should be used instead of PNG. I somehow don't see you going to the Cavaliers' or Browns' articles and removing it. How are they different? Just because their shown resolution is smaller? They are still scalable. As for the The largest .PNG version derived ("rasterized") from this file is 1280px. argument – look at the mentioned teams' images and you'll see that they all go to 1280px. Of course you can get it even larger when you change it manually from 1280px to let's say 4000px in the browser's address field. – Sabbatino (talk) 07:38, 20 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]