Talk:Classical homeopathy

New outline on homeopathy and classical homeopathy

Please add your editions in these versions --Homy 18:42, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Merger

I believe and therefore propose that this article should merge with that on Homeopathy. There is merit in discussing different variants of homeopathic practice but WITHOUT POV :-). Ballista 04:21, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

It is barely a single paragraph. I am fully in favour of merging. Jefffire 17:51, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

The page is barely readable and has no discussion of the scientific problems with homeopathy, and should not be merged.

Improving gradually

Now the Classical Homoeopathy page is improving gradually. The contained matters are accurate and according to the principles of Hahnemannian Homoeoapthy.The page should not be merged with the Homoeopathy. User:Dbbajpai1945@sify.com11:00 AM IST, 29 June 2006

I agree that it is not necessary to merge it, it is a separate article, there are some overlaps, but it is separate, this is the classical homeopathy article, it is based on Hahnemannian principles and not the same as modern homeopathy. The worry I have now is that this is not developed fast enough, there is a lot of work left to do, please help Pernambuco 02:39, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Miasm remove

Newly added Miasm section should be removed from this article. This section should be in the Homoeopathy section because it only have historical importance, which is away from the classical Homoeopathic truth. If this section will be included in the classical homoeopathy, it will definitely creat controversy, criticism and other unwanted matters, which is happening in the Homoeopathy pages. I will suggest, if you want to save the classical homoeopathy section from any controversy and ctricism, please only include the academic material and matters. Otherwise the fate of this page will be similar to Homoeopathy page.

User:Dbbajpai1945@sify.com 10:45 PM IST 09 Aug 2006

I copied the miasm from homeopathy because miasms are "classical homeopathy", Hahnemann devoted a great part of his life to. It is too specialized for just homeopathy. It could however use more philsophical contents --Homy 14:40, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

POV fork?

The unnecessary duplication and sometimes blatant copying of the content of the main homeopathy page seem to indicate this page is simply a POV fork. Comments in Homeopathy talk page. TimVickers 21:00, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

The copy happened because I removed it from my version. It belongs however here. --Homy 14:41, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Neutrality

What is not neutral ? --Homy 15:00, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Have a look at Law of Minimum: The Minimal Dose or Theory of Chronic Diseases A simple question for you, are these written from a neutral perspective or do they present anything and everything written by Hahnemann as self-evident truth? TimVickers 16:18, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

It should be fixed and the tagging of this article removed, ok, because it is unfair to have this label on the article since august of 2006, too long a time. Pernambuco 13:33, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Alive Homoeopaths GV and RS

To avoid the controversy on Homoeopathic matters, whatever they may be, at present some world class Homoeopaths are still alive like Dr. George Vithaulkas and Dr. Rajan Shankaran. Both are master mind Homoeopaths and have command on the Homoeopathic Philosophy and on whole Hahnemannian concept of Homoeopathy. I will request both the doctors to come forward and lend their opinion on the controversy. I will also request to both the doctors to complete the Homoeopathy page for the benefit of entire interested readers.

User:Dbbajpai1945@sify.com 00:15 AM IST 30 August 2006

Do you think practicing homeopaths are likely to have a neutral point of view on homeopathy? Should practicing psychics be called in to write the Wikipedia article on physic powers? TimVickers 18:46, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

You are absolutely correct Tim. I will highly appreciate your view that Hahnemannian concept is self-evident. After Hahnemann no body came forward to test the efficiency of the scientific philosophy / phenomenon of Hahnemann, whatever is written by the father of Homoeopathy. When microscope was not invented, Hahnemann have given his theory. Not of microscope, whatever gadgets are being used at present days by the medical science, even they are not in existence at that period. Now we have a very wide range of testing facilities,even technology, why not these people come forward to test the efficiency of Homoeopathy and its principles.

User:Dbbajpai1945@sify.com 12:10 AM IST 30 Aug 2006

Studies on homeopathy and clinical trials of its efficacy are available here PubMed TimVickers 15:13, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Rewrite

This article is v badly in need of thorough revision...I will try to add in new sources as I go through it in future days, and as time permits. Peter morrell 16:07, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Vithoulkas and miasms

"Even Vithoulkas has expressed "dissatisfaction with the concept of miasms" [1]"

The link (which doesn't work directly) is to an article quoting Ch. 9. of "Science of Homeopathy" where GV applauds Hahnemann's miasm theory, but is unhappy with the way homeopaths have handled it since Hahnemann. Removed. Jedermann 13:48, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Following a revert by 195.195.152.11 (from Stafford College), here is the text from the link:

Vithoulkas expresses dissatisfaction with the way miasms have been handled since Hahnemann’s time. They tend to be either dismissed as unnecessary to treatment, or accepted blindly, biasing all prescriptions for chronic disease toward “clearing the miasms”. Vithoulkas uses the term “predisposition” frequently in discussing miasms to get away from the biases built into the original term, and to emphasize the real nature of the miasms. The important understanding coming from Hahnemann’s work on miasms is “the concept that there exist layers of predisposition which underlie the waxing and waning of temporary ailments; these must be taken into account in treatment intended to be completely curative. In such cases the cure will take a relatively long time, while the prescriber systematically peels off layer upon layer of predisposing weaknesses by carefully prescribing each remedy based on the totality of symptoms in the moment.”

GV is not dissatisfied with the "concept" of miasms. Removed again. Jedermann 15:05, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

not sure about the revert BUT I am waiting for a reply from someone who told me that GV was not that bothered about miasms and had said [so I was told] that they are not so important in the practice of homeopathy because finding the patient totality and remedy is much MORE important...which might indeed be a valid point...once I have a reply, I can hopefully amend the point in question. It might be better as articles are being worked on for folks to just place "citation needed" in a bracket next to a contenious point rather than keep edit warring...then things might be more amicably settled. What do you say Jedermann? Peter morrell 16:14, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Fine by me, as {{Fact}} is one of my frequent edits. But this one had a citation that undermined the statement. What then? Perhaps {{statement needed to support citation}} :-) Jedermann 17:12, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, fine by me here too .... Pernambuco 21:24, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Topics box query

How do you edit the Topics box at the bottom of the article, e.g.

Related therapies: Anthroposophy - Bach flower remedies- Herbalism - Isopathy - Toxicology - Traditional medicine

There are a number of errors: Anthroposophy = Anthroposophical Medicine, Toxicology isn't a therapy (probably meant Homotoxicology)

Thanks Jedermann 17:21, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

See the reality of Homoeopathic Practice

I am a Homoeopathic practitioner. Whatever I have read in the Homoeopathic Medical College, that was a curriculam for study, which we have to follow for acquiring a degree for graduation. Now when we entered in the practice, we felt so many problems practically came before. Over 35 years of the practice of the Homoeopathy the reality's experience came before us, are not very encouraging itself. First of all we have to understand that the philosophy of the Homoeopahy, given by the father of Homoeopathy, is for we doctors and not for the patient. Patient is innocent and he does not know what the doctor is doing for him and what type of medicne he will prescribe for cure. Whether he is experimenting this or that medicine or he is implimenting Hahnemannian Philosophy on him. There is no surity whether the prescribed medicine will work or not. On the physician side, there is doubt in the mind of physician whether the medicine will cure or not.This uncertainity of cure makes Homoeopathy a doubtful medical system. We have no right to make life in danger of an innocent person, who came for the cure of his ailments. Should we take the risk of any person's health or life at the rate of the experiments?. Here I am talking of the practice of the Classical Homoeopathy. Classical Homoeopathy is almost gone from the hand of the pracitioners.

Now what is happening today, every Homoeopathic practitioner is using three or four medicine at a time separately single or in mixture. By this style of prescriptions, we are getting best results of the cure or relieves. I am also using the same style of prescribing, which no doubt is giving the best results , even some times surprising and unexpected cures or relief. The prescribing of the Homoeopathic mother tinctures or mother solutions are also very beneficial and giving results with quick and sharp recovery. But this type of the prescribing is not Hahnemannian and is aginst the principles of the Homoeopathy.

I always said to my other Colleagues that the Hahnemannian Homoeopathic Philosophy is for us [here I mean to Homoeopathic doctors] and is not for our patients. To save the Homoeopathy, we have to search some way where the risk factor should be atleast nil. user:Debbe 25 October 2006 08:15 PM IST

Problems with the Classical Homoeopathy

The problem with the classical Homoeopathic practice is very tedious. Why? The reason is that after Hahnemann,no body came forward to test the efficiency and the statements or the rules laid down by the Hahnemann,in the same way as Hahnemann did, nor single nor repeatedly. This makes Homoeopathy, as in present era, where scientific evaluation of any thing is seen in the evidence based and in this criteria of evaluation Homoeopathy prooves non-evidence based medical systems. There is so many rules of Homoeopathy and its philosophy, which are yet to look seems true but on the other side there is suspicion in the mind about the trueness of the same also. The practicle part of the Organon of the medicine deals with the practice of Homoeopathy, so that did not have any big problem, because it deals with the prescribing of the medicine, medicinal prooving etc.

The problem came from the philosophical side, where use of single medicine, miasms theory, vital force and others are described. About the use of single medicine, at the time of the Hahnemann, his great follower and relative Dr. Von Boenninghausen was using a trio for the treatment of the Spasmodic croup and that trio was "Aconite- Spongia- Hepersulphur". The trio or three medicine in use at a time with repetition according to the intensity of the problem became foolproof and sureshot formula for the cure of the Spasmodic croup. Even today every Homoeopathic physician is using the formula in the same line. This formula is so successful that it cures about 90 percent of the lungs problems, whatever they may be. Another concept of the alternation of the two medicines or three medicines or four medicines or five medicines is not new to Homoeopathy. Use of poly medicine at a time is justifiable, seems in this manner. Every Homoeopathic medicine have its relationship to other medicine. Some medicines follows well, some adopted well, some fulfilling the action of the previous medicines. The concept is seems scientific because practically seen that some medicine aggravates the problem those who have inimical relationship to the previous medicine.

For example, if in a case Lycopodium is prescribed, after waiting the action of this drug for 15 days, the next medicine which can complete the action of the lycopodium is Sulphur. This medicine used for another 15 days, after sulphur , Calcarea Carb is needed to complete the action of the Sulphur. Another 15 days Calcarea carb is given. This is a trio, which is anologous to these three medicines eachothers i.e Sulphur, Calcarea Carb, Lycopodium. Now the repeatition of these medicine is needed in week time -7days- interwal, or daily one dose of each medicine or single doses of each medicine in a day i.e. One dose sulphur in morning, one dose Calcarea carb in after noon, one doses of Lycopodium in evening. If the repetition of these medicine is needed more frequently, this trio could be repeated in 15 minutes to one hours. Now the question is here, what is unscientific in this style of repeatition and where is the breach of the rule laid down by the Hahnemann.

The trios, the quadra [use of four medicine], the penta [use of five medicine], if used by the Homoeopathic physicians in this way, looks atleast, not least, scientific prescribing and Homoeopathic fraternity should allow and should not be criticised.

After all Homoeopaths have to find out some consence way to make Homoeopathy a responsible, safe scientific system, where there should be nothing remain doubtful, suscpicion in the effectiveness of the medical system.

user:Debbe, 05 November 2006, 14:00 IST

Removal of valid links

It is not a good idea on any article to simply remove links. Who says they are bad? The rajesh shah article is a good one and the person who wishes to remove them should seek consensus rather than just impolitely removing them...which is just rude vandalism. Peter morrell 18:30, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

There was a discussion on another page where people always fight, and they were fighting over links, and kept removing them and adding them. so finally I had to revert everyone, they best way is to discuss the links first, before you add and before you remove, and that is what this discussion page is for Pernambuco 15:30, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Controversies on Miasm

In general practice of Homoeopathy, miasms are not playing any proper role and is therefore useless and have no much more importancy. Generally, prescriptions of Homoeopathy is based on the Causation- the causative factor of the present illness, weather conditions, foods intake,habits, female or male sexual behaviours etc. Most of the complaints occurs due to change of weather, which causes stress conditons in body due to abnormal metabolism, which causes diseases, unless and until some specific reasons are not traced out, for example Thyroiditis etc. The theory of miasms laid down by the Hahnemann, which define Psora, Sycosis and Syphilis, is only dependent upon the concept of Hahnemann, which he percieved during the treatment of the chronic diseases. The problem with the miasms are that whatever the Hahnemann have observed is one sided and the theory is not confirmed by any other observer or Homoeopathic scientist. The other reason is that whatever the concept of miams are present, should it be applicable to all over the globe? Different countries have different weather conditions, food habits, some are vegetarians , some are non-vegetarians, some are pure vegetarians, so that affects the miasmatic conditions. Psora which is known as Itch, is a common diseases condition, which is corelated by the Hahnemann as a miasmatic condition.

Yes, during course of Homoeopathic treatment, I personally have found some patients, who have Muscular problems, Arthritis, Asthama, Chronic Bronchitis, Psycosomatic problems, Somatopsychic problems and other disease syndromes etc, who during treatment repelled the skin eruptions like, urticaria, eczema, skin rashes, boils, anomaly of blood at one side but other side they relieved/cured with their complaints for which they came. I donot know about the other persons experiences about it. But here the theory of suppression of the eruptions , which is given by the Hahnemann, seems true. I think that Hahnemann's much stress on the "Suppression of eruptions" is his own observation depend upon the practice, which he gained from the patients during their treatment. Suppression of Itch is related to Psora Miasma, suppression of Gonorrhoea is related to Sycosis miasma and suppression of Syphilis is related to Syphilitic miasma. Hahnemnn's keen observation might saw during the treatment of their patients that the diseases is cured after reappearing of the Itch or Gonorrhoea or Syphilitic discharges, which was earlier treated by the Allopathic medicines, which suppressed the syndromes and causes another disease condition in a new form.

I have seen practically often patients i.e. Colic is better by joints pain. when joints pain is treated again colic appears. Mental irritability increases when mucous colitis is better, but irritability decreases when colitis reappear again. Bronchitis is better when urticarial rashes appears, when suppresses by antihistamines, again bronchitis appears. There are many examples, I am seeing in the practice but I can not say exactly with the phenomenon which creates the problem. Might be due to metabolism, might be due to hormonal, might be due to autonomic nervous system , might be due to anomaly of blood.

We cannot ignore the reality, which we see every day. On the other side, there is problem of Evidence based medicine.

Minute differences

The Homoeopathic medicine can be changed immediately, if physisican finds a very thin minute changes in the case history. This minute differences create problems for selection of the Single medicine. The problem is with the patient that Homoeopaths asks so many questions to patient, which irritates them. Absurd questions which have no means for the patient, is asked like Dreams. One patient came to me and he narrated that he sees dreams of drawning in Ganges River once in a night every day. I thought that there is something with the patient history that might create the problem with the sick. I questioned with him and consumed time to probe the matter. Lastly I concluded that his house was situated at the bank of the Ganges river. In his childhood, he saw a Yaught drowned in the heavy current of the Ganges during the season of flood. A large number of the people drowned in the water of Ganges. The accident was seen lively by the patient. I concluded that the event left deep impression in the mind of the patient. Thats why he sees the dreams of drowning every night during sleep. We should not forget the prooving of the drugs during whih so many unsusual, strange, rare, peculiar sympoms came from the recording of the patient. Ofcourse these symptoms may have imrortancy but can not take place over the causative factors. In Homoeopathic practice causative factors have main and lead role for selection of medicine. This fact is essential for the all medical sciences. Allopathy, western medicine also consider the causative factors, it may be infectious agents, it may be pathophysiological impact of the organs, it may be cellular or tissue problems but causation is the prime one. Every medical science consider causation , how , why, where, when,what,since, from, after etc ?

user:debbe,06:30 UTC, 23 December 2006 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Debbe (talk • contribs) 12:42, 6 December 2006 (UTC).

Hahnemann himself used two medicine in Alternation

During the life time of Hahnemann, he himself used two medicine in alternation. Infact Hahnemann was suffering from the Bronchial Asthama. This was the major problem with him, by which he was suffering within his whole lifetime. He died lastly with the severe attack of the Bronchial Asthama. He have written about the alternation of two medicine in some references which he used. Dr. Von Boeninghausen was in favour of the alternation of two medicine. Once, Hahnemann accepted the advocacy of Boenninghausen for alternation of two medicine, but other followers of Hahnemann at that time opposed this idea vigourously. It is also said that Hahnemann made some changes in the fifth edition of Organon and advocated in a Para/Aphorism for advocating the idea of Alternation of two medicines. But due to heavy opposition of that times Homoeopaths , Hahnemann geared back, and left the idea.

user:Debbe, 02:00 UTC, 24 December 2006

I made a rewrite of the section that listed the main Hahnemann publications, but I would like if someone with better English can look at it, Pernambuco 23:17, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Homoeopathy in Emergency cases

There is also a problem with the Homoeopathic physician that they have no fool proof treatment in emergent cases. Most of the emergent cases are related with the followings :

• Severe pain i.e. Abdominal, Intestinal, Renal, Gall bladder, Liver, Kidney, Cardiac, Pulmonry, Neuralgic, Muscular etc etc.

• High fever, sudden onset of High fever with their complications

• Heart attacks, Asthamatic attacks, severe diarrhoeal conditions, Mental agony, suddenrise of Blood pressure, Low Blood pressure, Pulmonary complications etc etc

• Unconsciousness, severe Vertigo, Hysterical attacks, Epileptical attacks etc etc

• Maniacle , mental and psychological

• Severe Heamorrhagic conditions, trauma, severe infections of the body

• Any other emergent conditions, vigorous vomitting,

I have faced these problems practically in my 35 years of the practice. I have tried to over rid the problem of the patient, in emergency. Rational or irrational style of prescribing of Homoeopathic medicine can controle some of the problems, which I have mentioned earlier. In my opinion, in Homoeopathy, there is no foolproof pain killer medicine, which could relive the pain of patient within few minutes. In most of the cases of the pain in emergency, I have used painkillers of modern western medicine or Ayurveda-the Indian system of medicine, along with the Homoeopathic medicine. In these severe condition, nor patient is able to tell the symptoms, nor physician is able to immediate observe the syndromes. Only haphazord prescribing can help but with no surity of relief or cure. But, when diagnosis is completed and the problem of the patient is concluded and when Homoeopathic treatment is given, there is no or minimal chances of another severe attack of pain. In renal pain, gall bladder stone pain, abdominal pain, Intestinal pain, my personal experience is that after use of one or two doses of the Mordern western medicine or Ayurvedic pain killers, when Homoeopathic medicine is used and the patient is treated by the Homoeopathic medicine, there is very less chances of reappearing of the pain. In some cases of Cancer pain, I have tried Homoeopathic and Ayurvedic medicine combined treatment to controle the severe pain. No doubt this type of prescribing gives relief in pain and the intensity of the cancer pain lessens, but not fully relived.

Regarding severe attack of Asthama and bronchitis, I have tried Homoeopathic medicine through Nebuliser. In my opinion, this is the best way to control the attack of the Asthma or bronchitis. Modern Western medicine practitioner uses steroid based medicaments in Asthma attacks through nebuliser, I have used pure Homoeopathic medicine for nebulising the patient. These medicines are the single or combination of the Homoeopathic mother tinctures like Aspidosperma,Crateagus, Justicia Adhatoda, Blatta Orientalis and others. I keep the 10 drops with little water in the smaller tank of Nebuliser and provide the vapour to patient. It minimeses or relive the patinet within few minutes. These medicines are also able to cure the disease conditions.

During epilepsy or hysterical attacks, I have used Homoeopathic potentised medicine along with the managements, like hard pressing of the both sinuses, facial cold wash etc. Some Homoeopathic medicine are effective in this condition.

Honey bee bite, maquito bite or other smaller animal bite , I use Homoeopathic medicine, but in Dog bite, I prefer to advise for Anti-rabis injections.Those who are not willing for injections, I warn the patient, they should watch the dog atleast for two weeks. If dog dies within this period, I dont give any Homoeopathic medicine and strongly advise patient to go for Anti-rabies vaccination/treatment.

Regarding traumatic condition, If fracture is present, I prefer to go for Orthopedic surgeon. Otherwise, if patient is not severely or seriously injured, I advise for Homoeopathy both internal and external medications.

In very high fever, One or two doses of Paracetamol, which is western medicine, follows by the Homoeopathic medicine cure the patient. In Homoeopathy, for high level fever there is many medicines,and those patient who does not want to take the Paracetamol, are given Homoeopathic medicine, and they got cure.Some Ayurvedic medicine are also helpful to reduce the high level of fever or febrile conditions.

I am leaving here to discuss the other conditions due to long talks. However there is need for the experimentation with the situation for emergency cases for treatment , which is not possible for a single person efforts, like I am doing. It requires a good Hospital settings, where these experiments can be carried. In my opinion, if minimum use of Modern western medicine in emergency cases is used to save a life, along with the Homoeopathic medicines, rational or irrational, it should be permitted and should not be criticised. To save a sick person's life is most important than the philosophy or teachings. One should not forget the first aphorisms of the Organon of Medicine, where Hahnemann instructed the followrs of the Homoeopathy 'the mission of physician'.

user:debbe, 05:30 UTC, 30 December 2006

thanks for the information, as you can see, I am one of the editors who have tried to clean up the page. This is really good information but it should be summarized into a smaller part, if you want to include it, ok, and something else: do you want to help with the article clean up? It is a mess right now....... I don't mean the talk page (this page here) but I mean the article itself, it is a lot of work and I have just begun on it, I will try to do a little at a time but I could use your help, too, please......Thanks,Pernambuco 21:41, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

many thanks for the compliments. I am not very much interested in the editing of the Classical Homoeopathic page because I feel myself that I am not very capable for editing. This is an Encyclopedia and my english language is weak . The page requires encyclopedic language, which you editor can do well. I try to summerize my writtings but subject is serious, so it requires some details. However I will keep in my mind to summerize the details. My work is to provide the details of the reality of the Homoeopathy at present. It is upto the editors, wheter they include it or not. If editors like to include the informtions in the main page , it is well and good, if not, it does not matter. So many wikipedia users read Talk:page, the infromation may be beneficial for them. user:debbe, 29 December 2006, 5:30 UTC

I was not a very capable editor when I started, but it just needs some cleanup. I do not think that your english language is weak, you can express yourself great on the talk page, and in my case, my native language is also not english but I get along ok, it is the practice that makes it better and if there are errors, then the others will correct you. Pernambuco 17:15, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

also, I wrote a little longer message on your talk page, so you can answer me there, if you prefer, or best to answer on my talk page, just click on my name and go there. Pernambuco 18:18, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Homoeopathy in surgical disease conditions

There are so many disease conditions where Homoeopathic treatment can be prooved boon to the patient. Some of the conditions are where surgical treatment is essential but in these conditions Homoeopathy can help a lot to avoid the surgery.

• Renal stones, Hydronephrosis, Kidney disorders, Nephropathy
• Boils and abscess
• Gall bladder inflammatory conditions, Cholecystitis, Cholelethiasis, Sludge in gallbladder, swelling of gall bladder, stone in gall bladder below 4 mm/5mm size
• piles, heamorrhoids,
• some nature of cyst and glands
• Hard glands, inflamation of mammery glands
• Tonsillitis, uvalitis, throat and vocal cord problems
• Fractures simple type, cracking bones
• Enlarged Prostate, Prostate hypertrophy
• some types of cancer or cancerous growth in mouth, cheeks, skin, uterus and othet organs
• blockage of arteries/veins, blood clotting in arteries
• any other disease conditions which requires surgery except immediate surgical intervention

Regarding renal stones and some kidney problems like cyst in kidney, calcium deposite in kidney, hydronephrosis conditions can be avoided surgical interference by the use of Homoeopathic medicines. But it is depend upon the caliber and the expertisation of the Homoeopathic physician experiences. Ordinary Homoeopathic physician or those who are not having sufficient experineces for tackling these condtions will alway fail to cure or relieve the patient. So it is necessary that Homoeopathic physician must be an expertise, that is the primery requirement.

As I have already noted the list of the surgical disease conditions, which can be treated by the Homoeopathic medicine, is depend upon the experiences, which I have gained in my over 36 years of the Homoeopathic and Ayurvedic practice. Besides these, there is some other disease conditions, where surgical intervention may be, must be treated with Homoeopathic medicine.

In case of acute emergency, surgical interference is necessary and should be adopted.

user:debbe 18 January 2007

this is a good list and I like the last two that you added now (today) debbe, this really makes the list very complete now, it is great for the article Pernambuco 18:20, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Homoeopathy as "Evidence Based Medical system"

Last 14 years, I am working on a technology, which is evidence based and is known "Electro-Tridosha-Graphy" and in short E.T.G. The technology is in fact for the status quantification of the Ayurveda, the Indian System of Medicine, Principles like Tridosha, Tridosha kinds, Sapta Dhatu and so many. Those who understand Ayurveda, they can easily grasp the Ayurvedic principles. At one side the technique quantify the status of the Ayurvedic principles and the other side, it is helpful to diagnose the diseases according to the principles of Modern Western Medicine. Some times the diagnosis is so miraculously, that many laboratory test and scans fails to determine the sickness.

One day I thought that "Is there possibility of the determination of the status quantification of Hahnemannian principles like Psora, Sycosis and Syphilis by Electrotridoshagraphy- ETG?" I worked on this thought and I suceeded but little. Now estimation of Psora, Sycosis and Syphilis is possible by this technique. It require more attention and zeal to work.

The ETG machine records tracings from 21 sectors of the human body on thermal sensitive paper. The trace record evaluation is feeded in the computer programming. The computer provides printed report. Homoeopathic Treatment based on the report eases the workload of physician without any deviation because the trace record only changes, when patient improoved or his condition worse. The research work is also going on the selection of Homoeopathic medicine, based on the trace records. It is found that there is no need of any recording of the case history or sympatomatology or asking questions to patient or any examination. Trace record is only sufficient for selection of appropriate Homoeopathic medicine either by interpretation of the tracings or by Repertorisation.

I have named the technique "Electro-Homoeo-gram , E.H.G." The technology is in very initial stage. It requires more attention and work. However,' Electrohomoeography'EHG will be a tool to proove Homoeopathy as an Evidence Medical System in future.

user:debbe 21 January 2007 , 02:40 UTC

I can follow you and I see where this is going, it is veeeeeery interesting, but the problem on wiki-pedia is, I dont think we can add it, because they have a rule about Original Research, so my next question to you is: where has information been published? in a journal, or on the web, please let me know, but self information can not be added, it has to be from a source Pernambuco 17:58, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

i navigated wiki-pedia and the part I refer to is original research, if you click on this link (blue) you can find out what I mean Pernambuco 22:57, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

thanks for the interest showing in the technology. Regarding Electro-tridosha-graphy, ETG, some newspaper and magazines published articles in Hindi language in India. Hindi is my mother tongue.In Ayurveda page of Wikipedia, the ETG technology was included at one time, but as you say about the original research work, it is true. If you go to the talk page of Ayurved, you will find the english translation of the published articles in different newspapers in Hindi Language. Classical Ayurveda Literatures are originally in Sansakrit language, which are translated into Hindi Language. Although I know well both the langauges. It is natural that the research work will be in either in the Sansakrit or in Hindi Language. I choosed Hindi. ETG technology is at presently handled and undertaken by the appropriate Government of India agencies for reasearch and further development.

In case of Electro-Homoeo-Graphy, EHG, the achievement and progress of the work is narrated here. A magazine have published the article on the EHG subject matter in English Language.::::user:debbe, 22 January 2007, 06:00 UTC

well I can not read Sanskrit, but here in wiki-pedia there is no rule against foreign language sources. They prefer the English language sources but if there is no source in English then a source in another language is also allowed, but to interpret it, I rely on you because this is not a language that I can follow. I am from Brazil and my native language is Portuguese Pernambuco 16:46, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't matter how "interesting" this ETG thing is, it has nothing to do with classical homeopathy. If someone wants to write about it (and yes, the original research aspect is a huge stumbling block), it should be on its own page. 168.132.10.250 01:15, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

• Electrotridoshagraphy, which is an Ayurvedic whole body scan, is being practiced in the Hospital of Central Research Institute of Ayurveda (CRIA), Road no. 66, Punjabi Bagh,New Delhi, India and Kunmun ETG Research Institute, Kanpur,UP, India. Those who are interested to know much more about this technology, they should contact to Director, CRIA. Central Research Institute of Ayurveda is an ancellary of the Ministry of Health and Familywelfare, Government of India.ramsumer,newdelhi,25 february07

Regarding Elecrotridoshagraphy see [[2]]

Homoepathic medicinal application by external routes

Can Homoeopathic medicine be given by the external route in human body? Hahnemann advises in Organon of medicine, fifth edition, that the Homoeopathic medicine can be given by the external routes. In aphorism 288, Hahnemann writes that when Homoeopathic medicine is introduced orally, it first affects tongue, mouth and stomach. Hahnemann advises to introduce Homoeopathic medicine through Nasal inhalation or mouth inhalation in this Para. He writes more elaborately in the footnotes under same aphorisms. In fact, Hahnemann perhaps faced the problem with the nature of patient to avoid taking the medicine orally, as we faces even today. Patient generally is not willing to take the medicine frequently and avoid the repetition. In this Para, footnote deals with the process of the application of the Homoeopathic medicine.

Now what I do, I advise to patient to take the potentised dilution of the selected Homoeopathic medicine. I generally used two, three or four medicine at a time, unless and until I am not sure for a prescription of single medicine according to rule of Hahnemann, because I would not like to take risk with the life of patient for the sake of saving Hahnemannian philosophy. I give the medicine orally in the potency and I advise patient to rub the potentised dilution of selected one medicine on face, selected second medicine on right arm, selected third medicine on left arm, selected fourth medicine on the sides of abdomen or in-between the gap of epigastria and navel. These potentised dilutions prepared with the alcohol dry quickly but their affects are very miraculous. This method suggested by the Hahnemann works miraculously and patient does not feel any botheration for taking regular medications in frequent intervals.

Here we see, how Hahnemann have experimented the use of medicine through external route. He also advises to inhale the medicine through nose and mouth. That’s why I am using Homoeopathic medicine through nebuliser.

User:debbe, 25 January 2007, 17:00 UTC

Nonsensical statement about Dreams, Whims and Fantasies

It is highly objectionable and is unacceptable to say that Dreams, Whims, Fantasies are unscientific and too subjective. This is an absurd statement. Why Homoeopath forgets the unique contribution of Hahnemann, a new style of drug proving, which no body have thought on, even today? Why Homoeopath forgets, how Homoeopathic Materia-medica is constructed and have been presented in a new manner? Those who are commenting like this, in my opinion, they are not the true Homoeopathic practitioners and wounding Homoeopathy by their acts, stabbing back with the knife. These people have never understand well the Hahnemann, the Hahnemannian teachings and his writings.

Hahnemann begins Materia medica from Mind. Why? Have any Homoeopath thought on, why Hahnemann started materia medica from Mind? At the time of Hahnemann the drugs were introduced from “Head” then other part of the body. It is the unique vision of Hahnemann that he begins the proved drugs from “Mind” and then to other parts of the body sequentially. In fact, Hahnemann understands that Mind is the supreme and important organ in Human body, which is most sensitive than the other part of the body organs, both physically, mentally, intellectually etc. The concept of starting from the mind is to evaluate the doctrine of Vital force, idiosyncrasy and the mental faculty business over all.

Dreams, fantasies, whims are a part of the mental behavior. Whatever we do in our daily life, reflects in our subconscious mind. There is no need to explain the entire phenomenon. When drugs were proved, whatever the symptoms perceived or conceived by the prover, are recorded by them in their note papers or diary. Obviously the prover are human beings and they recorded which is felt by them. Finally the recorded symptoms came in existence.

The uses of these symptoms are very important. Who says, these symptoms are not essential in Homoeopathic prescribing? These symptoms have essential role to understand the personality of patient internally and externally, after going to his/her whole recorded history. If Homoeopathic physician is novice, he will feel difficulty to understand the value of these symptoms.

We are enjoying the entire essence of the Homoeopathic philosophy, what Hahnemann has given in his last days of life, in such a matured age. This could be difficult to understand by the beginners because to understand the Hahnemann, one should have a matured brain and analytical mind. It is like that when you ask a deaf and dumb Person about the taste of sugar or salt or a bachelor, who have never married, about his/her “sexual experiences and married life”.

User:debbe, January 27, 2007, 17:00 UTC

Homeopathic schools

I moved this here:

Classical homepathy is told to be a homeopathy following tightly Hahnemann philosophy and the procedures and practises of classic homeopaths like Kent. But in fact it is hard to say were the boundaries are exactly layed of classical homeopthy. Is the isopathy a classical homeopathy? Maybe not.

Classical homeopathy like the homeopathy itself has several different schools. For example the English and German homeopathic schools are classical, and the French non-classical. There are different followers of both classical and non-classical homeopathy around the world.

For exaple most homeopaths use pure (one substance made of) remedies of Boiron to prescribe classicaly.

I would like to know, should it be added? Pernambuco 18:41, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Hahnemannian view about obstacle to cure

Hahnemann in his Organon of Medicine has very clearly writes that “obstacle to cure” must be consider by their followers. If physician will fail to observe these obstacles, he will somehow fail to cure, as it is termed for “ideal of cure”.

I will mention here a examples from my practice.

About 30 years back, one lady, wife of a Military officer, came for consultation of her complaints. It is a big story but I will try to nutshell it. She was suffering from Severe Urticaria from last four months. Primarily she was treated in the local DH. After one month treatment she did not have any relief and then sent to the Area Hospital. Again about one month treatment in area Hospital without any relief , referred to AIIMS. Two months treatment could not relieved any more to her. Recommending for Homoeopathic treatment one junior officer consulted me about her condition. She came to my clinic. She was very badly suffering with the Urticaria. Her body was full of Urticarial eruptions along with the severe itching in her whole body. It was a terrible condition of the patient and I had never seen this type of Urticarial problems even till today. I noted all the symptoms and what I best can do, I done. I told the family members that she will get relief within a week, as was my previous experience about Urticaria. One week passed without any relief. Again I consoled the family member that further one week treatment will relieve her. Some time it happens that late relief may possible. By this way, one month has passed without any relief. The patient was in severe anxiety about her complaints, so was the condition of the family members. Round over 40 days, when she did not got relief, it was a time of my anxiety. I was doing all what I can do within my capacity. I consulted to some senior Homoeopaths but all failed. One day I thought that I should scrutinize the case very minutely. I gave her time with a batch of undergraduate Homoeopathic students and I and students ask her so many questions. Round about two hours I spent in the interview and ask about the details of her complaints but I could not find any exact cause of the suffering. I was consulting the books simultaneously. I found in a book of Homoeopathy that “Pessaries”, which is used for contraception, may cause Urticaria. I ask the lady whether she is using Pessaries. Her husband replied that she is not using Pessaries, but using “loop” or say intrauterine contraceptive device. I advised her husband for “urgent” and “immediate” removal of the device.

The day was Sunday. Next day, on Monday, the lady was 60 percent relieved and another next day, on Tuesday, 90 percent and within four days she was relived her almost symptoms. The Military officer asks me to take the fee and charges. I ask him that I have not given you any medicine, so no charge at all. And you are serving the Nation, so no consultation fees.

After this example I became very cautious about the obstacles of cure, which hinder the way of recovery.

User:debbe, 09 February 2007, o8:10 AM

I have heard about similar examples, this is something that I need to find a way so we can use it in the article, it is also good that you gave the reference to the book, let us work on this!!! Pernambuco 15:10, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

:: I strongly suggest that these kinds of examples are NOT used in the article. What exactly are you trying to prove with them? I think a simple statement that allopathic medicine can have deleterious effects on the human system is sufficient (which the allopaths fully acknowlege with their definition of side effects). We want to discuss the theory and background of Classical Homeopathy, not act as someone's private little casebook, nor get into a slanging match with allopathic practitioners (which is how something like that example could be read). Trxi 01:24, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Both of you raise some good points, I think I'll let Debbe answer since she is really more of the specialist here, ok. But trxi, what do you say, could you prefer if this is a separate article? and the examples go there...... and not here.... Pernambuco 02:18, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

This page needs a lot of work

I see there are a bunch of suggestions about splitting off some of the sections of this page, and given excessive length of it, no wonder. However, by cutting it down to its essentials, we won't need to do any splitting, and we also can maintain the content that is unique to the topic of Classical Homeopathy.

Going by sections:

• Retain "Originators" - although give it a different name. It's a clumsy term.
• Retain "Definition", but change the rest of the title to "Variations of Class. Hom." ("deviations" is not the correct word). However, get rid of the lengthy Vithoulkas quote and summarise its content - that he thinks that "dreams, whims" etc are a poor ground for students to base their prescribing on.
• What is "Genesis of Homeopathy" doing here? A brief summary should suffice, and the reader can be directed to the main homeopathy page for more info (which is where that content should be... in a shorter form - the lengthy discussion of Hahnemann's proving of Chincona is a waste of space).
• Organon is fine
• Homeopathic principles should probably be renamed "Principles of Classical Homeopathy", and it could certainly be trimmed of junk (the miasms section is way too long), but most of this section is excellent.
• "Requisite qualification"... is clumsy English (easy enough to fix). I don't think it's a necessary section either, although I don't have wild objections to it.
• Casetaking is important, but instead of quoting at length from the Organon, a link to the relevant sections, and a summary of what the aims are should be sufficent
• "Homoeopathy in surgical disease conditions"?? What is this doing here? the only point that needs to be made is that homeopathy can treat many illnesses/disorders, both acute and chronic, and also assist the body with general healing. We do not need an exhaustive list here. This is supposed to be a general article on the theory and practice of Classical Homeopathy, not a guide to homeopathic treatment.
• Selection of the Medicine could be included in the Casetaking section
• The references to Hahemann's works are unnecessary here, and I also think they should be split off from the main Hahnemann article as well. Who needs to know about all the editions of the Organon?
• The history of the repetory should be in the main Homeopathy article. It is not peculiar to Class. Hom.

A brief discussion on the controversialness of homeopathy is also in order.

Before this sounds like a lot of complaining, I am glad to see the amount of text that people have contributed to this, especially compared to when I last looked at the page some time back. But rather than it looking like an attempt of quacks to justify themselves, a big tidy-up would make this page look a lot more "encyclopedic". I'm very happy to implement the changes I've suggested, but I don't want to tread on anyone's toes. I will put up a suggested "revised" edition up on Writely (or similar) for people to have a look at to see how it will look - I'll put the link here once I've done it. Trxi 01:51, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

start with the first item, you said, Retain "Originators" - although give it a different name. It's a clumsy term., I agree, what is a better name, precursors is something but maybe many people dont know what it is Pernambuco 17:46, 19 February 2007 (UTC)