Talk:Clément Chantôme

Clément Chantôme was nominated as a Sports and recreation good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (March 17, 2024, reviewed version). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated.

Clément Chantôme was nominated as a Sports and recreation good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (January 10, 2022). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated.

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Clément Chantôme/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Z1720 (talk · contribs) 02:46, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I will be reviewing this article shortly, using the following template. If you intend for this article to appear at WP:FAC, please note so below and I will conduct a more thorough, pre-FAC review. Z1720 (talk) 02:46, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.:
It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall:
Pass/Fail:

Comments:

In general, there are lots of places where I think a copyedit would help. Some sentences are awkward and feel like they are missing words. If desired, a copyedit can be requested at WP:GOCER. However, it typically takes a month for an article to receive a copyedit, so if this route is taken I suggest withdrawing this nomination and renominating once the copyedit is complete.

I also noticed that there's a lot of prose about speculation. Since some of the sections are quite long (notably the Paris Saint-Germain section) it would be best to remove these as too much detail. Instead, focus on what actually happened to Chantôme.

Some specific examples of things to fix are below:

Lede

"Chantôme was a fan favourite because of his home-grown status, fighting spirit, and fearless attitude on the pitch." This language feels too WP:PROMO, as it is hard to define what a "fighting spirit" or "fearless attitude" is. This should be expanded upon in the lede so the reader understands what is meant by this, with more neutral wording.
"Rising through the ranks of Paris Saint-Germain's youth academy," This is mentioned in the lede, but not in the body.
"he had drawn comparisons to Didier Deschamps for his determination and ball winning ability." also needs to be mentioned in the body.
Please ensure the the rest of the statements in the lede are also mentioned and cited in the article's body.

Paris Saint-Germain

This section needs level 3 headings, as there are too many paragraphs here. Perhaps split into years.
"It wasn't until on 1 December 2007 that Chantôme returned to the first team," -> On 1 December 2007, he returned to the first team..."
"During the same month, he spoke out his development in the first team for Paris Saint-Germain." I'm not sure what is meant by this sentence.
"In the January transfer window, he was linked a move away from the club, as French clubs tried to sign him on loan but ended up staying at the club." Considering how large this section is, I do not think this is necessary as it is speculation.
"Ahead of the 2008–09 season, Premier League side Arsenal were reported to be interested in securing the youngster's services." Since this is speculation, this can be removed.
"However, he found himself facing a new competitions from new signing, Claude Makélélé, resulting in him finding his playing time from the substitute bench." -> "After the team signed Claude Makélélé, Chantôme lost his position in the starting lineup, often playing as a substitution."
"This led Manager Paul Le Guen about Chantôme's situation, saying: "Clément is one of the players who can really contribute to the team. He showed it especially in the second half of last season. Without Makelele, without Sakho, without Giuly at his best and without Chantôme, given our squad, that's a lot."" I'm not sure what this quote is trying to tell the reader, and I think it can be removed.
"But he faced the sideline along the way, due to competitions and his own injury concern." What is this injury? Describe how he was injured. Also, this is a sentence fragment.
"At one point, Chantôme was expected to be loaned out to get first team football, but he ended up staying at the club." Speculation can be deleted as too much detail.
"It wasn't until on 23 October 2008 when Chantôme scored his first goal of the season, in a 3–1 loss against Schalke 04 in the UEFA Cup match." -> "Chantôme scored his first goal of the season on 23 October 2008 in a 3–1 loss against Schalke 04 in the UEFA Cup match." This avoids the contraction (wasn't) and tightens up the language.
"At the end of the 2008–09 season, Chantôme made thirty-six appearances and scoring once in all competitions." This needs a citation"

I'll pause there to give the nominator time to address the above concerns. Please ping when ready for more comments, or if you decide to close the nomination in favour of a copyedit from GOCE. Z1720 (talk) 03:11, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Z1720: Do you recommend a copyedit? Paul Vaurie (talk) 05:59, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Paul Vaurie: Yeah, I recommend a copyedit. Contractions are used throughout the text, commas are placed in awkward parts, and some of the phrasing can be rewritten more clearly (In particular, rephrasing the "It wasn't until..." sentence starters). GOCE can do a much better job in a copyedit than I can, and they have been a fantastic help in fixing up my articles. Also, I suggest that once-sentence paragraphs be merged into other paragraphs, per WP:OVERPARAGRAPH. Z1720 (talk) 16:19, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, thank you. How can I request a copyedit? Can you do it for me? Thanks again! Paul Vaurie (talk) 17:21, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Z1720: Pinging so you see the comment. Paul Vaurie (talk) 17:21, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Paul Vaurie: Go to WP:GOCER and request it there. It will take about a month for the request to go through. If you choose to have GOCE to copyedit, I will close this GAN (as it can't be on hold for a month) and you can renominate it once the copyedit is complete. Z1720 (talk) 17:35, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Z1720: Sure, that works. Paul Vaurie (talk) 17:38, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

Unsuccessful. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 19:52, 17 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:Clément Chantôme/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sammi Brie (talk · contribs) 18:35, 17 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

This is a tough one: it is a rare long fail. After a full review bogged down in spot-checking, this page needs work to get it to GA, and I don't think it can be done in seven days. The back-breaker for me is the fact that the citebundles make it extraordinarily tough to verify anything, and the two I did I couldn't find the claim I was searching for. The citation tags need fixing, though one good statistics source might be able to handle all five. The article needs bringing up to date with the last two years, and its prose needs improvement to be less workmanlike in places. The citation issues need fixing before this article is returned to GAN. If you have questions, feel free to reach out. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 19:52, 17 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know? If you fancy doing so, I always have plenty of GA nominees to review. Just look for the all-uppercase titles in the Television section. Reviews always appreciated.

Copy changes

Priority item: There are five ^{[citation needed]} templates on the page that must be resolved if this page is to pass. They all seem to be for year-end statistics. The right source might be able to take all five of them out if a stats database exists for French football. @Paul Vaurie: Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 18:53, 17 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

He signed for Rennes in 2016, and was loaned to Lens a year later. No need for this comma (WP:CINS)

Club career

After rising through the ranks of the academy, he was promoted to the club's first team for the 2006–07 season, and signed his first professional contract with the side.
"Technically blessed" should probably be a quote or given more foundation? It seems quite peacocky, and one Bleacher Report article alone can't justify us saying that.
Since then, he became a first-team regular Maybe "After that" instead of "Since then"?
Chantôme appeared in the first team during the first two months of the 2007–08 season, but was subsequently dropped. Remove comma (CINS)
strong competitions in the midfield position Should be competition, singular, maybe at the midfield position
Your writing could use less rote material of "he scored a goal in this game, he scored a goal in that game, he was sent off during this fixture". It makes your prose workmanlike and a bit boring.
He made his debut for the club as a starter against Nice in the opening game of the season, but was substituted off in the 24th minute due to a shoulder injury. Remove comma (CinS)
There is very little material in the C'Chartres section. How are things going for him? Seems like the club got relegated for financial reasons. Is he still there?

International career

He came on as a substitute for Blaise Matuidi in the 46th minute of the game, but was replaced by Bafétimbi Gomis after 30 minutes Remove comma (CINS)

Sourcing and spot checks

What makes Histoire du PSG (150) a reliable source?

3: This is Chantôme's FFF profile. It includes his birthdate and youth clubs. Y Oddly enough, it lists just two Espoirs appearances—presumably the others are in [140]?
11: A bundle of five different references from Football.fr about what seems to have been a lousy season for PSG. The last ref says they were in 19th. Where is the one that indicates they finished 15th?
12: Another citebundle. I am having mighty trouble, even after translating the articles, finding the claims that need to be had.
16
22
28
54
57
66
70
92
101
102
114
128

Your practice of bundling references (there are 150 numbered references and 312 citation templates) causes issues. When done well, citebundles reduce clutter in a page. Here, they make it a game of chance to sort through and find the right ref to verify the claims.

Images

All the images in the article are PD or CC-licensed. Watch for sandwiching due to image size and positioning; it's a bit of an issue. Encouragement: Add alt text.

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.