Talk:Ciel (musician)

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	This article was accepted from this draft on 18 January 2022 by reviewer HitroMilanese (talk · contribs).

Biography: Musicians

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Notability?

Hey Tamingimpala! I saw you've added a tag about notability, so I'm reposting a message I originally left on the talk page for HitroMilanese. There are several complete features from RS on Ciel: a massive piece from Resident Advisor, a profile from Now Toronto, as well as several articles on her label, from MixMag, and two independent biographies from Mutek and RA. There's also a profile of her promotion and activism work as Diskwoman from TO Now.

There are also several reviews of her music: from Pitchfork and RA. The only citations she's mentioned in passing are best-of lists, but, that makes sense as it's a list of many artists -- but still worthwhile to demonstrate notability. To me, these citations demonstrate significant coverage (not just passing mentions) about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject.

In the lead, it's made clear that she's notable for both her activism and for her DJ work, both of which are well-covered by secondary sources. Do you have recommendations for improvement, or consider any of these citations as insufficient? Thanks for the tag & appreciate any feedback! SiliconRed (talk) 17:42, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like the tag was removed, thanks for the audit! SiliconRed (talk) 17:55, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Naming?

Wondering if there are recommendations for naming this article. I'm not sure whether Ciel (musician) or Ciel (Canadian DJ) or even Ciel (DJ) makes more sense. SiliconRed (talk) 13:54, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Siliconred, there's no need for country disambiguation, as there's no other article on ciel from different country. Ciel (musician) is preferable. Tame (talk) 14:42, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Copy that, touché. Any reason musician is preferable over DJ? (I've been digging around for similar examples, but no dice so far) SiliconRed (talk) 15:02, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Siliconred, A DJ is in broader terms a musician. Simply titling it (DJ) is being very specific. It might've have applied if there were some pages like Ciel (bassist), or Ciel (drummer). Although it would've needed to be more specific in some cases, like narrowing it out to country-level-disambiguation. And if there was only one musician, no matter what kind, we could simply just titled the page with (musician) extension. But if multiple, then specifying to the needed level which I already discussed. The point being, a DJ, is above anything else, a musician, and since there are no other musicians of different kind on Wiki, so just a simple (musician) extension is enough. [I wrote in a hurry lying down, hope I make sense].-- Tame (talk) 19:21, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yup that makes sense -- ty. I've been reading through WP:NCPDAB and I guess my main confusion is determining the required degree of specificity. It'd be nice if there was a fixed set of disambiguators, though I get why there aren't -- there's a certain art to picking the right degree of specificity in a disambiguator... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ To me, I see how DJs are musicians, but I guess I see them as in a different class -- Are music producers technically musicians? I'm not totally sure, and I'm sure there are folks in the industry who would disagree. SiliconRed (talk) 20:32, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]