Talk:Choiseul pigeon

Crest

Nice work on this article, Rufous-crowned Sparrow. One thing that seems to be missing is discussion of the slight "controversy" over the crest arrangement. Hume 2012 states the arrangement is unknown, but Fuller 2001 elaborates (citing Parker 1967), and states the crest of the museum skins may have been distorted during taxidermy, resulting in the crest seen in the Keulemans image. Another (more Goura-like) interpretation is seen in the taxobox image, which is a recent derivative of the Keulemans painting. Also, there are some free PDFs of old papers near the bottom of this page that might be useful: http://extinct-website.com/extinct-website/product_info.php?cPath=22_48&products_id=465 FunkMonk (talk) 01:49, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. I've been gearing up for a go at the Passenger Pigeon article and wanted to do an extinct pigeon first. I included some information on the crest controversy. Do you know why the derived image is the one in the taxobox? Crests notwithstanding, I think that the older image looks better. I think I've wrapped up the initial stages at least; would you mind giving the article a look? I'm probably going to try to take it to GA status if the requirements haven't dramatically changed. Thanks. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 06:47, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Yep, I'll take a look soon. And nice to hear the Passenger Pigeon will soon get some attention, I've been thinking about it too for a while, and worked on it a bit with an editor who is now absent. As for the images, the "new" image (which some think is more accurate, but this cannot be confirmed) is in the taxobox because I uploaded the Keulemans image long after the other one was added, so I simply placed it in the article. I wouldn't mind if they were switched around. And I think you could easily go for GA once you wrap up. If you don't have the book Extinct Birds by Errol Fuller, I can recommend it, for a "historical", rather than plainly scientific, look at such animals. FunkMonk (talk) 11:41, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. I don't have access to that book, but for historical context Tennent (in External links) did a fantastic job publishing the relevant notes from Meek and the Whitney South Seas Expedition. Are there any major controversies over Passenger Pigeons I should be aware of before starting? For this pigeon, HBW said that it likely lived in cloud forests and that Meek traded for his skins, something every other source disagrees with, plus there were controversies on the number of skins collected, the reliability of indigenous sources, crest position, and the bird's distribution. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 14:37, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure if there are controversies as such about the Passenger Pigeon, but I noticed that sources differ on the number of eggs laid.[1] As for this article, looks good, but wouldn't the extinction section logically (and chronologically) go under the relationship with humans section? FunkMonk (talk) 17:39, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Point, and that is how Great Auk does it. I switched the order. Thanks. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 18:25, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

I would probably except a bit more elaboration on the crest issue, for example why there is doubt, and what the "options" are. FunkMonk (talk) 22:19, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Choiseul Pigeon/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Jimfbleak (talk · contribs) 14:52, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

'Comments

• I'm not sure what variety of English is being used (behavior/grey). As per varieties of English policy, it should be in BE, since that is the official language of the only islands in which it occurred.

I switched the greys to grays (Wikipedia has ruined me with this word; I never can remember which is AE). I don't have a problem with it being in BE, but don't feel confident in translating it without missing something and leaving it a mixture. I think it is currently all AE: is there an easy way (script perhaps) to turn it to BE? Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 17:01, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

• six skins- three male and three female- — hyphens should be mdashes
• peoples of Choiseul called the species either "kumku-peka" or "kukuru-ni-lua," — the language being?

The source didn't specify the name of the language, and there are at least four on the island. I linked to a page on Choiseul languages. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 17:01, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

• I'd link non-migratory, carnivorous, gizzard
• was honored on a stamp — not sure that the right word for an extinct bird, "commemorated" might be better.
• Rothschild ref (#5) is missing a word in title, and shouldn't be fully capped even if it was in the source.

What word? I think that the article starts with Rothschild's description of the genus, with the species name as a section of the same article. I did lower case and put a "." after gen. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 17:01, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

My error, I was looking at the n sp heading on the next page

Good luck Jimfbleak - talk to me? 14:52, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the review. I think I've done all of your comments above except for the ones with notes. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 17:01, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

I've no further comments, but I'm a bit pushed for time so I won't do the image check and formal assessment until tomorrow. Do you want me to translate to BE? Jimfbleak - talk to me? 18:30, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

If you want to and have the time, please. Thanks for another good review. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 18:57, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Thank you! Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 06:59, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Solomons' crested pigeon spelling?

Is the correct spelling "Solomons crested pigeon" or "Solomons' crested pigeon", with the plural possessive being formed by the single apostrophe? If the island group was expressed singly, would that make any difference? For example, if the pigeon had been found on one of the Shepherd Islands to the south (known locally as "the Shepherds"), would the name be "Shepherd crested pigeon" or "Shepherds crested pigeon" or "Shepherd's crested pigeon"? Are you sure that all or most of the spellings are in the form "Solomons"; that is, the vernacular of Solomon Islands? --RoyGoldsmith (talk) 05:20, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

• Well, IUCN suggests so: http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/22691086/0 FunkMonk (talk) 11:10, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Feral

The ref does not say feral. It says cats. Awien (talk) 18:02, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

• Hume 2012 doesn't seem to mention feral, but I'm not sure about the 2001 source, don't have it. FunkMonk (talk) 18:08, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

The IUCN reference up above (http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/22691086/0) does say "Its extinction was presumably caused by predation by feral dogs and especially cats (Tennent 2009), as suitable habitat remains on the island (Collar et al. 1994)" (under Major Threat(s), almost at the bottom of the page). --RoyGoldsmith (talk) 18:39, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

But as I said in my edit summary, people introduce domestic cats, that may go feral. "predation by feral dogs and especially cats" is perfectly fine, "the introduction of feral cats" is not. You don't introduce feral cats. Awien (talk) 19:54, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Another expedition

In 2014, a group performed another biological expedition, Choiseul Biological Expedition, in Solomon Islands and they did not find Choiseul pigeons there. This information could be add to this article. Source here (page 9). "There was no sighting of the Choiseul ground pigeon, which is most probably extinct." Dr. Lenaldo Vigo (talk) 15:52, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

Definitely. Want to give it a try? FunkMonk (talk) 05:34, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

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