Talk:Chenab Valley

The Chenab Valley

This valley is called The Chenab Valley because of the river Chenab. This valley extends its arms from Anantnag in the West up to Himachal Pradesh in the East. It is famous for its mountains and small valleys between these mountains. People in this valley show diversity in their language and culture. There are Kashmiri, Baderwahi, Sarizi and many other communities in the region and kashmiri as a major language. The valley includes Kishtwar, Doda, Baderwah and Ramban. This valley is also famous for its friendly environment between the communities as they share common culture and languages. The valley has beauty at each and every step with a variety of fruits, plants, and animals and has many famous picnic spots like fishpond, daldraman, laldraman, patnitop, jai valley, Chowgan, Qilla Kishtwar, Katarsamna, Bharnoin, Padyarna and Mughal Maidan and many more. Machail Mata temple, Shrine of Shah Asrar are also in the valley. There are a huge number of dams in the valley like Baglihar Hydroelectric power project (900 MW) near Ramban. Dul Hasti Hydroelectric Plant - 390 MW type power project in Kishtwar District. Ratle Hydroelectric Plant - an under-construction power station near Drabshalla in Kishtwar District, etc.These dams are said to be the reason behind the earthquakes. As recently the valley was hit by 5.4 magnitude earthquake resulting in huge damage in the buildings. talk:دانش بانڈے|talk]]) 14:49, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

POV

Last Neutral Version: here

Present version: here

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The last neutral version of the "Chenab Valley" Wikipedia article described the valley as follows: "The Chenab Valley is a river valley formed by the Chenab River. The term is also used collectively for Doda, Kishtwar, and Ramban districts of Jammu Division in the Indian-administered Jammu and Kashmir. These districts were formerly part of a single district, called Doda." This description had numerous independent and reliable citations supporting that it is a river valley as per research articles and that the term is collectively used for Doda, Kishtwar, and Ramban districts of Jammu and Kashmir.

However, the present version of the article has been significantly altered by a user named UnpetitproleX, resulting in a non-neutral point of view. The current lead section reads: "Chenab Valley is a loosely-defined controversial term sometimes used to refer to parts of the Jammu Division in Jammu and Kashmir, India. The term is used to refer to the present-day districts of Doda, Kishtwar, Ramban, and, at times, Reasi and parts of Udhampur and Kathua. The first three districts used to be part of a single former district called Doda, which was created in 1948 out of the eastern parts of Udhampur district of the princely state of Jammu and Kashmir, and are sometimes collectively referred to as the Doda belt. The term is seen to be aimed at a communal break-up of the Jammu Division and iteration of Kashmiri Muslim irredentism."

The current version introduces several contentious claims: 1. It describes the term "Chenab Valley" as "loosely defined" and "controversial," which lacks basis. 2. It extends the term to include parts of Reasi, Udhampur, and Kathua, despite independent citations not supporting the inclusion of Udhampur and Kathua. 3. It asserts that the term is "aimed at a communal break-up of the Jammu Division," which appears to be based on opinion articles rather than objective research.

In the neutral version, the origin of the term was linked to Erik Norin's 1924 research, which defined the geography of Chenab Valley. This version included a geology infobox and important information about the valley and its rivers. These references and information were removed by UnpetitproleX, confining the term to a specific POV.

The significant and controversial edits made by this user should be reverted. A thorough discussion of each contentious change should be initiated on the article's talk page.Yousuf Soz (talk) Yousuf Soz (talk) 00:59, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

The original "neutral" version, which was written in that form in a major copyedit by me here used three (pre-existing) references: two Greater Kashmir news reports and one Frontline magazine article. The Frontline article which came closest to being a good WP:RS out of the three, actually does not even mention "Chenab Valley" at all, let alone to mean what it was being cited for.

The current version, referred to as "POV" by you, actually cites three scholarly sources, including a 2023 work published by Cambridge University Press, a 2019 work published by Sage Publishing, and a 2006 one by Brookings Institution Press. I haven't yet finished editing this page, I'm soon going to add another work (a T&F published article by AA Wani) to the lead, and am also looking through other available academic sources for a better history section. Please refer to WP:BESTSOURCES: the sources cited by me are the best possible sources available out there for the term's usage as referred to in this article. If you have any other sources, present them.

WP:NPOV states we must represent "fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, all the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic." Published by reliable sources, not whatever we may think is neutral. UnpetitproleX (talk) 12:24, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Misrepresentation of sources related to geomorphology

Sources such as this, this and this, being held up as "evidence" of the political usage of the term (which is the subject of our article) is gross misrepresentation of them. These sources refer to the "Chenab valley" (with the uncapitalized 'v') in a purely geomorphological sense, from Lahaul to Reasi (not the 3 "Doda-belt" districts).

Erik Norin, in his 1926 article, is mainly concerned with glaciations "at the southern side of the watershed of the Great Himalaya range, for example in the valley system of the Chenab." He says "The part of the drainage area of the Chenab treated in this paper comprises the main valley and its tributaries between Riasi and Kishtwar and the lower course of the Maru-Warwan valley, which connects the section with the main watershed (Fig. I)." The Figure is a map, which definitely does not correspond to the three present-day districts of our article, i.e. the so-called "Doda belt." But this has been used to add the following as "origin" of the term: "The term was first reportedly introduced by Erik Norin in a 1926 journal article, and has since been embraced by residents and activists to emphasize the region’s distinct cultural and geographical identity." This is the extent of misrepresentation.

Patil et. al. (2020), which studies landslides around the Chenab river and a few of its tributaries says that "For landslide studies, the area was selected in the part of the Chenab valley, which is extended in five districts, viz. Chamba (HP), Doda, Kargil, Kishtwar and Udhampur (J&K)." referring to the watershed of the Chenab river in Chamba, Kishtwar, Doda and Udhampur. It does not refer to the political and cultural usage of the wikipedia article. The article further states that "Kishtwar is the major urban settlement near to Chenab valley and is also a district headquarter." Notice that it says Kishtwar is near to Chenab valley (the Kishtwar town is located around 2 km east of the left bank of the Chenab river). It also has maps, labelled 'Figure 1', and 'Figures 7–21' showing what is referred to as 'Chenab valley' which do not correspond to the 3 districts of the "Doda-belt". The article is not acknowledging the so-called "Chenab Valley" as a cultural or political unit at all.

Dey et. al. (2023) is concerned with glaciation in the 'Upper Chenab valley' by which it means the course of the Chenab river in Lahaul Spiti, Chamba and Kishtwar. Not the political usage referred to in our wikipedia article, definitely not the three "Doda-belt" districts.

Both of these above articles were dumped in the bibliography section, without actual reference to them in the article at all. I'm removing them both. UnpetitproleX (talk) 00:30, 3 October 2024 (UTC)