Talk:Cheese/Archive 3

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

What about paneer?

The article states:

"Until its modern spread along with European culture, cheese was nearly unheard of in oriental cultures, uninvented in the pre-Columbian Americas, and of only limited use in sub-mediterranean Africa, mainly being widespread and popular only in Europe and areas influenced strongly by its cultures."

Perhaps some mention should be made of paneer, the ubiquitous Indian fresh cheese, which does not owe its existence to European culture, but rather is apparently of Persian origin.

BenStrauss (talk) 21:58, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Etymology of the word "cheese"

The Latin "caseus" may have a common origin with Kishk or Kashk (كشك), Arabic and/or Persian for various types of fermented and dried dairy foods. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.14.69.60 (talk) 16:26, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

cheesmakers in dairy country

This doesn't need a citation needed tag; it's common business sense. Any producer close to its supply is going to have fresher supplies. The price of the supply may or may not be lower, but the shipping costs will be.ndyguy (talk) 00:52, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

A review in chapter "Post-classical Europe"

It is generally believed that Rome spread a uniform set of cheesemaking techniques throughout much of Europe, and introduced cheesemaking to areas without a previous history of it. It was practically right for tough conservative cheese but very few for wide varieties of soft and white cheese.

As Rome declined and long-distance trade with the oriental and meridional coasts collapsed, cheese in Europe diversified further and various countries, even germanic or finnish ones far in the north, taking a part of this antique mediterranean heritage develop their own distinctive cheesemaking traditions and products. Some historians of Touraine suggest that shapes of the cheese was formely chosen to please the old divinities, who received these gifts. These intercessions were always rediscovered and rapidly transformed by religious mainstream, especialy stoïcian then christian during and after the second roman Empire.

The British Cheese Board claims that Britain has approximately 700 distinct local cheeses;[6] France and Italy have perhaps 600 each with much a large diversity of texture and form. A French proverb holds there is a different French cheese for every day of the year, and Charles de Gaulle once asked humorously "how can you govern a country in which there are 246 kinds of cheese?"[7].

The advancement of the cheese art in Europe was indeed slow during the centuries after Rome's fall, but monastorie's cellars performed to store a lot of cheese innovating in surface's treatement and finding new flavours. Even, starting from the choosen feed for the cows, the basic process of making and especially molding under press or with special instruments were modified. Many of the cheeses we know best today were first recorded in the late Middle Ages or after— cheeses like Cheddar around 1500 CE, Parmesan in 1597, Gouda in 1697, and Camembert in 1791.[8]

In 1546, John Heywood wrote in Proverbes that "the moon is made of a greene cheese." (Greene may refer here not to the color, as many now think, but to being new or unaged.)[9] Variations on this sentiment were long repeated. Although some people assumed that this was a serious belief in the era before space exploration, it is more likely that Heywood was indulging in nonsense.

....... Yeah Heywood was good at that!....... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.110.155.158 (talk) 23:43, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

A respective proposal under your attention --Harvey Stillnot (talk) 21:09, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

cheese rules —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.196.79.119 (talk) 15:35, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Holes in the cheese

Swiss starter cultures also include Propionibacter shermani, which produces carbon dioxide gas bubbles during aging, giving Swiss cheese or Emmental its holes.

Maybe someone can verify this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.152.140.116 (talk) 19:30, 4 March 2009 (UTC) it can be yellow or yellow and orange or orange.

Cheese production and the environment

The impact of production of cheese on the environment should be included in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.13.125.118 (talk) 20:33, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

A little tricky, but not impossible. Have to be careful not to introduce undue bias -- even from referenced sources.

Basically, it's the impact from cows? But there are also "alternative" sources to consider such as goats, water buffalo, and yak. (Did you know that US mozzarella is made from water buffalo milk imported from Italy?? A local cheesemaking company just hit me up with that one!)

Piano non troppo (talk) 09:33, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Cheese and MSG

some people said that monosodium glutamate occurs naturally in protein containing foods such as cheese & meat. should it be listed in this article?
andry (talk) 03:49, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

No. Glutamate is an amino acid which exists in many, many, foods. Any time there is also sodium in this food, there will inevitably be sodium glutamate when the food is consumed and its contents enter solution. To label all the foods that have this particular amino acid, while ignoring the others doesn't make a lot of sense to me, even if people do have an irrational fear of this particular amino acid.75.82.133.73 (talk) 02:17, 2(UTC)

Yes but most foods have glutamate inside proteins, where it is bound and unreactive. Cheese is a food where the potential for free glutamate exists due to its processing and ripening steps. However to the original question, find some sources and then you can put in something about glutamate. 74.7.121.69 (talk) 03:41, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

only in low concentrations, one of the richest foods in natural MSG are fungi products such as marmite or japanese soy sauce. Markthemac (talk) 00:32, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

also all MSG is technically speaking naturally occurring, as synthesis of it is due to natural chemical reaction between different natural substances (same goes for stomach acid inside u right now, as we are the most occurring chemical factory's on this planet) Markthemac (talk) 00:38, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Semiprotect

I would request this page be semiprotected due to excessive vandalism. a little insignificant 15:50, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

This has been done. Piano non troppo (talk) 16:59, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Major error - fermentation

Fermentation is the conversion of sugar to alcohol or the growth of microbes in tanks. Cheese is not fermented. The edit of 7 Nov 21:22 is false and also poorly worded - cheese is a "generic term" that's called a word. Suggest full reversion to the previous intro - can someone w/ account do this pls? 74.7.121.69 (talk) 03:45, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Not always. I've added a source which discusses how fermentation is used in the cheese-making process. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 16:23, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Aha I see the problem. Lactic acid is fermented in the making of cheese in many cases - however in no case is the lactic acid substantially remaining in the cheese. It remains in the whey and the cheese is the solids that come out through the process of cheesemaking. One could say that many cheeses are produced by fermentation, but not that cheese is "fermented". Saying that is like saying that jello is a hot dessert because heat is used in making it. Also note that it is absolutely true that not all cheeses are fermented and the lede sentence should be all-encompassing, such as saying that cheese is a food made from the fats and proteins in milk. 96.251.7.194 (talk) 17:56, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

I have removed the word "fermented". --NeilN ^{talk to me} 18:16, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Removal of content

Although today's addition and removal of large content should have been mentioned here by the involved editors, I do support the removal. That material is irrelevant to the subject, as well as unsourced. Mjpresson (talk) 20:25, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm certainly willing to explain. When an editor adds a lot of material which is either original research, trivia or unencyclopedic, I tend to put the burden of proof on them. When I note on their user page "i now fully hate Wikipedia",[1] I'm not more amenable.

The OED has two pages of "cheese" word senses. Adding a paragraph for each would not be workable. With the strong preference for Wiki articles to be brief, there's a collision between brevity, and the idea that many word senses are allowed in a single article. Here, it wasn't going to work. One editor would feel that their word sense was important enough to contribute and another editor would disagree: endless controversy.

Comments specific to some additions:

1) "Cheesy" apparently is only spelled alike, it doesn't have the same etymology. Or perhaps any overlapping meaning (as was noted).

2) The meaning and etymology of "cheese wagons" wasn't explained, even though I suspect it has to do with looking like blocks of processed American cheese.

3) Saying "cheese" for photos is not universal, and the source is a Straight Dope staff report (i.e., it could be worse, but, if you know them, they frequently and cheerfully admit they are wrong).

4) That a group is "frequently" called a cheesehead could use a scholarly citation, although any number appearing at sports events wearing cheese costumes is suggestive. But is it any more significant than calling British limeys, or French frogs?

5) Observations "more whimsical bit", "less commonly", "sometimes referred", "almost unheard of", "very popular", and "come directly from the saying" are all original research and unencyclopedic. Regards, Piano non troppo (talk) 16:31, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

I totally agree. Mjpresson (talk) 16:34, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Please link to this page

Goat milk cheese —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.67.219.1 (talk) 08:52, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

It's listed in section "List of common categories". Since it's there, it's not necessarily appropriate to add it again, for example to "See also". Piano non troppo (talk) 02:59, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Photos Used

The photo showing a (presumably Dutch) market with wheels of cheese stacked on the pavement has a questionable caption - As I recall the yellow wax coating is for a young cheese. Once it is aged and it has a red wax coating. Mccainre (talk) 02:28, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Vegetarian Meat? Why is this article labeled as a dairy product?

Cheese has animal renent (cut up stomachs of the sacred hindu cow) for enzymes and meat extracts. THIS IS CONSIDERED A MEAT PRODUCT. IT SHOULD NOT BE LABELED VEGETARIAN. IF YOU ARE A VEGETARIAN WHO EATS CHEESE YOU ARE NOT A VEGETARIAN YOU ARE A MEAT EATER AND BEING LIED TOO. Cheese is no longer kosher. This article should be removed from the dairy section. thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.255.42.105 (talk) 22:12, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

These issues are already discussed in the cultural attitudes section, which clearly states: Rennet derived from animal slaughter, and thus cheese made with animal-derived rennet, is not vegetarian. In any case, regardless of whether it is considered vegetarian, it is surely a dairy product as it is made almost entirely of milk. The addition of salt doesn't make it a "mineral product" and the addition of rennet doesn't make it a "meat product". --Macrakis (talk) 23:49, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Ripening not the same as aging?

Some brief reading on cheesemaking led me to believe ripening is distinctly different from aging. I hope someone can ensure there is no confusion of the two terms. I believe ripening is an accelerated bacterial action allowed to occur before storage, and that storage (usually at a somewhat lower temperature, with a rind) is where "aging" occurs. However I would like an expert to verify. Mydogtrouble (talk) 22:53, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Actually, this sounds to me like a neologism distinction, or perhaps specialized word usages that may not belong in a general encyclopedia. One problem, certainly, is that ripening and aging have overlapping meaning, given all dictionary senses. It reminds me of a salesman I heard recently (coincidentally, selling cheese cutting boards) who insisted that his were "marble", but that others just looked like marble. One dictionary I have, however, includes a definition that any rock that looks like marble ... is marble.

Nor is it necessarily comfortable distinguishing between "production", "ripening", "aging" and "rotting". These are all stages along a product's life -- and not necessarily distinct ones, at that. Many products start to rot, even as they are being produced. Regards, Piano non troppo (talk) 15:42, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Sharp?

What does "sharp" in "sharp cheese" mean? 204.210.242.157 (talk) 19:01, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Edit Request march 3, 2013

Under production:curd processing: the link to cheddaring links to the page for cheddaring, which now redirects to manufacture of cheddar cheese. this should be fixed to point towards - Manufacture_of_Cheddar_cheese#Cheddaring — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.80.58.202 (talk) 04:13, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

• I did you one better, and rebuilt the redirect itself. Abductive (reasoning) 04:32, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Nutrition contents?

A nutrition table similar to other foods is needed.Yes I agree.

I don't know that this is reasonable, since this is article about "cheese" generally and various cheeses will have various nutritional contents... Jytdog (talk) 20:44, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Agreed with Jytdog -- the nutritional value of cheeses varies very widely, so it is not informative to give a "nutrition table". I have added a sentence to the Nutrition section discussing the wide range. --Macrakis (talk) 21:47, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Edit Request August 3, 2012

For some reason, the cheese page is semi-protected? Whatever. Could somebody move the line "Additional ingredients may be added to some cheeses, such as black peppers, garlic, chives or cranberries" to follow "The yellow to red color of many cheeses, such as Red Leicester, is formed from adding annatto" in order to create a more logical flow? 184.7.112.136 (talk) 02:03, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

rBST

I just wanted to suggest writing something about rBST Free on the cheese page. I think that readers would find the information interesting, even if it is controversial. (GlassLadyBug (talk) 20:42, 3 August 2012 (UTC))

BST is certainly an interesting topic and relevant to dairy industry. To appear here, it would have to show references supporting this either specifically in relation to cheese, or to animal welfare within industrial farming. It might be hard to do this (in a worldwide context) because (AFAIK) the US is about the only country that uses it and it's hardly a country with much of a cheesemaking craft (outside of the petrochemical industry, or wherever it is they make that stuff). Andy Dingley (talk) 23:22, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Top cheese consumers

Top cheese consumers - 2008 (kilograms per person per year)

This table is inconsistent with its source: http://www.dairyinfo.gc.ca/index_e.php?s1=dff-fcil&s2=world-monde&s3=consglo&page=tc-ft

there are countries missing, and even the first country in the list (Greece) has the wrong value. I am going to fix the table, to reflect its indicated source.--98.14.86.159 (talk) 23:03, 8 January 2011 (UTC)--Aeural (talk) 23:04, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Sorting the third table about consumption

the third table should have sorted content instead of being sortable. I was trying to do it but table markup is a lot to learn for such a small thing. i think that making the table sortable was probably a stopgap by someone else and that is appreciated but it would be best if the three tables were formatted the same way with and in descending order.

Aformalevent (talk) 06:30, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Aged cheeses and lactose.

The article states, without reference, "Nevertheless, people with severe lactose intolerance should avoid eating dairy cheese." This is a misconception. Aged cheeses have trace amounts of lactose, and some have none, and can be well tolerated by lactose intolerant persons. I propose that the sentence should read: "Most lactose intolerant persons can tolerate aged cheeses, since these cheeses have only trace amounts of lactose." The amount of lactose in any cheese is easily found in the USDA National Nutrient Database for Standard Reference. The carbohydrate amount listed is the amount of lactose, since that is the only type of sugar in milk, and therefore, in cheese. One ounce of brie, for example, has 0.13 grams of lactose, which is nearly zero.

This is the link for the analysis of brie from the USDA Nutrient Database: [2] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dogsx5 (talk • contribs) 17:11, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

about world cheese consumption table

the article that mentions world cheese consumption for 2009 no longer exists so,i think that we should put back the 2008 statistics (or 2006 was before? i don't remember) (until we find another source). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Krem12 (talk • contribs) 18:47, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 74.130.32.78, 5 April 2011

{{edit semi-protected}} Can someone please specify the different type of cheeses? For example, Blue Cheese (Rosenborg, ect), Havarti (Dofino, Maytag, ect). Thanks! 74.130.32.78 (talk) 22:02, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Maybe List of cheeses. Materialscientist (talk) 22:11, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Historical Innaccuracy: Turkic Tribes Possibly Inventing Cheese

This article claims that Turkic tribes were possibly responsible for being the first to make cheese, but this is severely anachronistic. The Turkic peoples were only coming about as a collection of tribes in the first several centuries B.C. Cheese, of course, is much older than that (especially if one considers how later in the article it is said cheese is depicted by the Egyptians in 2000 B.C.)

It is possible that Asiatic nomadic tribes were the first, but this is different than "Turkic" and should be changed or removed.

96.56.4.26 (talk) 17:17, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Vandalism should be removed

I think the phrase 'ur dick smells like cheese' should be removed. I cannot do this, and user Fyrael has deleted my previous request. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ModusPwnd (talk • contribs) 18:30, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Already reverted. Materialscientist (talk) 22:38, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

The phrase "ur dick smells like cheese" is still there as of 6-2-2011. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.37.67.133 (talk) 23:49, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

.. because you see some cached page (also, sometimes the refreshing is delayed for unlogged users). I've tried to purge here, and you can try to refresh your page. Materialscientist (talk) 23:54, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Asia

This section is really weak and probably violates NPOV. If you're going to bring up lactose intolerance it would be fair to at least bring up both tofu and stinky tofu. Stinky tofu fills the same culinary niche as cheese in Taiwan. Not all Asians eschew dairy, however. Get it right. (Besides, what cheese article would be complete without linking to Japanese chiizu?) 98.180.8.57 (talk) 05:11, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

“Cheese is rarely found in East Asian dishes, as lactose intolerance is relatively common in that part of the world and hence dairy products are rare…” To bring this topic/section back to life, the sentence I quoted definitely needs citation. Without it, it’s a) hard to believe, and b) almost seems like vandalism. If this statement is true, I’m interested in the citation if for no other reason than because it seems too curious to be true.
— cyberbisson (talk) 18:57, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Additional citations

Why, what, where, and how does this article need additional citations for verification? Hyacinth (talk) 04:27, 28 June 2011 (UTC) You forgot "when".-- Lee Tru. 16:51, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Feta (Greek cheese)

Some more extended edits, or adding a section about Feta (cheese) in article, It would be more constructive by own. -Aperitis25 (talk) 18:07, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Invention v. Discovery

It seems more likely that cheese was discovered rather than invented. Stories about Arab boys "inventing" cheese seem apocryphal to me. Hunters and gatherers consumed virtually every part of the kill including, for example, marrow, brains, internal organs. It is unlikely these ancients would have wasted the stomach contents either. If a young mammal was killed, it would very likely have had curds in its stomach. This seems a more likely source of the first cheese--discovered in the stomachs of game and only recreated later. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jay37064 (talk • contribs) 23:04, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Any reliable reference for this? Materialscientist (talk) 23:27, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

There are many references to hunters and gatherers such as the Sami, eating "the partially digested stomach contents of reindeer, which they had killed." (http://www.utexas.edu/courses/sami/diehtu/siida/hunting/jonsa.htm). If the killed animal had been nursing, curds would definitely have been present in the stomach contents. Those curds would have been eaten. Was that not the first cheese? That seems a more likely route to cheese than waiting tens of thousands of years for some nomad to use an animal skin to transport fresh milk... Most ancient foods were discovered (bread, wine, beer) from natural processes and man later learned how to duplicate those processes. Jay37064 (talk) 11:49, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Materialscientist's point is that Wikipedia policy requires that we base articles directly on reliable sources, not our own inferences, however sensible. Can you find solid sources for this theory? --Macrakis (talk) 12:11, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Hunters and Gatherers notes that the "Stomach contents and organs were eaten fresh." Given that young mammals consume milk and the stomachs of mammals produce rennin, the stomach contents of young mammals would have contained cheese curds, and we are assured by experts that hunters and gatherers ate the stomach contents. Thus, the first cheese would have likely come from naturally occurring curds. In any case, the source cited in the original article is a foodie blog with no source citations... The whole original history seems nonsensical. A stomach wouldn't be a good choice for a storage container because it is thick and watery and would rot rather quickly. Skin and certain other organs (bladder) are another matter, but don't contain rennin...Jay37064 (talk) 20:19, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Lactose section needs serious work

The lactose section sounds more like a preach than anything containing valuable information. Do lactose intolerant people really need to be told to avoid eating cheese? I'd rather read a short synopsis of a) what is lactose,and 2) what are the physiological causes for lactose intolerance. I realize there is a whole other article on that topic, but this section is silly and needs to be fleshed out with serious information rather than worthless preaching. Wikipedia should strive for a higher level of information. Cheese is far too important to reduce the topic to silly, inane, empty ramblings. --MarioSmario (talk) 21:18, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

language section missing

Some editor damaged the language codes (or whatever). They appear as red garbage at the bottom instead. 24.48.126.186 (talk) 02:10, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

I've purged the page and it recovered on my screen. Materialscientist (talk) 02:52, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Weight Loss by eating cheese

Can anyone find the source for the "Eating more cheese 'can help fat people lose weight', study claims" reference? So far I can find only news articles. It seems like the finding was a PhD thesis and there is no peer reviewed journal article. I don't know wikipedia's standards for these things, but I would imagine that facts from a study that did not lead to a journal article should at least have a disclaimer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.119.252.83 (talk) 03:11, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Agreed over your concern for sources - this does sound a very odd claim indeed. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 10:56, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Strange redirect

Why SS-Reichsführer redirects here? Is that some kind of joke? --Gspinoza (talk) 07:22, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Fixed --Sciencegey (talk) 12:58, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

I tried to look up Slandering today and it redirected here.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.116.171.11 (talk) 19:34, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Cheese Wheel

I notice that Cheese wheel redirects here, and yet there is no mention of them on the page

The Truckle article, is not very substantial, but could almost certainly be expanded from the content of those pages that currently link to it. And or it could be merged into this article. EdwardLane (talk) 10:48, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Cheesemonger

"Cheesemonger" redirects to the article on the 1st Regiment of Life Guards (nicknamed "Cheesemongers"). Should there not also be a reference to the term in its literal sense of "a seller of cheese"? The term is mentioned in a number of other articles, e.g. the one on Paxton & Whitfield, a long-established cheesemonger in London. GDBarry (talk) 16:37, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

I've now created a disambiguation page for "cheesemonger" with an entry that redirects here. I've added a short paragraph explaining the term although I think it probably deserves its own article (cf. "fishmonger"). GDBarry (talk) 10:10, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 20 July 2012

In the section regarding East Asia, it is implied that Nepal and Bhutan are part of East Asia even though they are South Asian countries.

76.185.134.167 (talk) 01:03, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. Please provide a specific change that you would like done, in the form "Change X to Y". RudolfRed (talk) 03:35, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Ricotta

I might have missed it, but ricotta is an interesting case of a non-cheese cheese.Longinus876 (talk) 04:11, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Question, how can a cheese be a "non-cheese cheese" I know what ricotta is, I've even made some, and it seems like cheese to me.-- Lee Tru. 16:56, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

What does this mean?

"the effect of making milk in an animal stomach " Under history of cheese. Making something,but obviously not milk.

IceDragon64 (talk) 18:16, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Framunda: Framunda cheese is a cheese native to the Deuseldorf/Dingleberry section of Germany. It's aged in a wooden smeeling snatch and has a taste similar to that of limburger with a hint of port wine flavor. It comes in many varities ranging from creamy and salty to sweet to fishy even. It is said to go best with anchovies and boxed wine. Framunda can be aged anywhere from a few days to in your case, many years. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.189.66.93 (talk) 07:44, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Salt in cheese

The section on health and cheese could mention the concerns that have been faced over the amount of salt in cheese, especially blue-veined cheese. This was mentioned on the news on the Radio Four programme "Today" on November 29, 2012. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 10:54, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

In fact, I think that the news broadcast said that cheese may have more salt than crisps! ACEOREVIVED (talk) 10:58, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Edit Request

Changed "Cheesemaking" to "Cheese Making" Maxwell the scribblenaut (talk) 00:44, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

East Asia

"Cheese is rarely found in East Asian dishes, as lactose intolerance is relatively common in that part of the world and hence dairy products are rare." This statement is false. Cheese is a processed dairy product, with small to negligible quantities of lactose. South Europeans and Middle Easterners, like most populations, are also overwhelmingly lactose intolerant (see lactose tolerance), and are large, traditional producers and consumers of cheese. Indeed it cheese-making is generally considered to be a method of rendering milk nutrients into a form better tolerated by lactose intolerant peoples. 86.27.249.32 (talk) 19:23, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

• I made a change. Abductive (reasoning) 04:23, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

History - Modern era section, non-European cheese, Paneer

"Until its modern spread along with European culture, cheese was nearly unheard of in oriental cultures, in the pre-Columbian Americas, and only had limited use in sub-Mediterranean Africa, mainly being widespread and popular only in Europe, the Middle East and areas influenced by those cultures. But with the spread, first of European imperialism, and later of Euro-American culture and food, cheese has gradually become known and increasingly popular worldwide, though still rarely considered a part of local ethnic cuisines outside Europe, the Middle East, and the Americas.[citation needed]"

First what's the point in this paragraph? Probably should be removed. Second the main thing that annoys me is Paneer according to the wikipedia page is "a fresh cheese common in South Asian cuisine ... of Indian Subcontinent origin often referred in the Vedas dating back to 6000 BC" in other words blatantly from outside Europe the Middle East and the Americas and extremely common. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.24.182.48 (talk) 14:28, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Heart Disease

Am I the only one that sees the MASSIVE contradiction here:

"A review of the medical literature published in 2012 noted that: "Cheese consumption is the leading contributor of SF (saturated fat) in the U.S. diet, and therefore would be predicted to increase LDL-C (LDL cholesterol) and consequently increase the risk of CVD (cardiovascular disease)."

Compared to: "It found that: "Based on results from numerous prospective observational studies and meta-analyses, most, but not all, have shown no association and in some cases an inverse relationship between the intake of milk fat containing dairy products and the risk of CVD, CHD (coronary heart disease), and stroke. A limited number of prospective cohort studies found no significant association between the intake of total full-fat dairy products and the risk of CHD or stroke....Most clinical studies showed that full-fat natural cheese, a highly fermented product, significantly lowers LDL-C compared with butter intake of equal total fat and saturated fat content." [28]"

Suggestions to remove most of the first paragraph, anybody?--197.79.0.7 (talk) 19:47, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

No. first paragraph is the "received wisdom" - what people thought for quite some time. Second is what clinical studies actually showed - namely that the received wisdom was wrong. That is why the first paragraph says "would be predicted". Both of things are perfectly true. Jytdog (talk) 01:27, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Agree with Jytdog, but I think the text needs to be clarified for the general reader. Since the page is protected, I commented at WT:MED, though I doubtless should have looked here first. (Apologies). —86.162.136.32 (talk) 07:22, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Two issues

First, the article shouldn't be semi-protected, nothing in the history suggests that it should have been in the first place. Second, for months the article has led with "Cheese is a food derived from milk that is produced in a wide range of flavors, textures, and forms by coagulation of the milk protein casein". This is poor phrasing since "forms" is meant as the end of the list but also can be misread as "forms by coagulation of the milk protein casein", which is accurate but then grammatically awkward. It just needs an edit. The phrasing prior to the edit that put this in (Aug 4) was superior. I can't make a change due to semi-protected status and having zero interest in ever having an account again, but that's another story.70.183.190.29 (talk) 23:56, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

New external link

• Enrique García Ballesteros: Foods From Spain History: Cheese. Neolithic to New Wave

It's a new page of History of Foods. Initially, from Spain, but interisting for all countries. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Egballes (talk • contribs) 09:56, November 23, 2013‎ (UTC)

Chymosin

Chymosin should be wikilinked and anyway introduced in the article. It just comes out of the blue. I'd do it myself but it's protected. 219.79.73.248 (talk) 03:59, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Imbucase

Imbucase is an account of a British government committee concerned with the import of butter and cheese during the 1st World War so it appears to be relevant to the Cheese article.--Johnsoniensis (talk) 19:11, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

so i gather from the book's title. why is the topic important today, and what is the importance of this book? There are literally thousands of books about cheese. Why this one? This seems so wildly random. Jytdog (talk) 20:28, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Edit to link direrction

The link to the British Cheese Board is no longer functioning.

The correct page is: http://www.britishcheese.com/

Thanks

Jackmonty (talk) 20:01, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 November 2014

205.202.152.2 (talk) 19:18, 14 November 2014 (UTC) Cheese is the number one favorite snack for cats in the world! :)

 Not done for obvious reasons. (After all, that's an honor which clearly belongs to small dead mammals.) G S Palmer (talk • contribs) 19:31, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Change please

"Observation that the effect of making milk in an animal stomach gave more solid and better-textured curds may have led to the deliberate addition of rennet." should presumably read "the effect of making CHEESE in an animal stomach" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.143.179.242 (talk) 23:04, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

 Fixed: [3]. G S Palmer (talk • contribs) 19:36, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

American Cheese consumption

Please remove "Today, Americans buy more processed cheese than "real", factory-made or not.[16]", with no replacement text necessary.

Despite the source, I don't think this was ever accurate, and certainly not in 2015. Digging around, I'm finding some contradictory data, but nothing that supports the assertion that processed cheese outsells real cheese. One useful source, the USDA: http://www.ers.usda.gov/media/146945/ldpm19301_1_.pdf. Scroll down to figure 2 and note that the authors are using "American" to refer to traditionally American styles like Cheddar, Jack and Colby, *not* processed cheese, which has its own category. Between the various real cheeses (Cheddar varieties, non-American and cottage), you're looking at between 25-30 lbs. annually per person. Processed cheese sits between 5-10 lb.

Different numbers but the same basic conclusion can be found here (http://www.ers.usda.gov/amber-waves/2014-june/trends-in-us-per-capita-consumption-of-dairy-products,-1970-2012.aspx#.VMcVKNJ4opA), which states that in 2012, Americans ate 33.5 pounds of cheese per person, of which 13 lbs. was processed American cheese. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jonas42 (talk • contribs) 04:36, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Done Pishcal — ♣ 16:18, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 May 2015

Switzerland Matiamuller (talk) 07:04, 7 May 2015 (UTC) Most of cheese result from Switzerland, contry named rightly "land of cheese".

 Not done Please provide reliable sources that support this claim. Yunshui ^雲_水 08:00, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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Semi-protected edit request on 10 February 2016

Please Let me dit here i am lonely — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:304:B0AF:6969:489F:EFB3:CA10:47B6 (talk) 17:48, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

 Not done You need to express the request in a "change (x) to (y)" format. If you wish to edit, you can create an account, and after 4 days and 10 useful edits to other pages, you can edit this page. Ian.thomson (talk) 02:04, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Hello All, I have removed the phrase "though still rarely considered a part of local ethnic cuisines outside Europe, the Middle East, the Indian subcontinent, and the Americas." becasue A citation was requested. I found the text was plagiarised from a text from 1918. Much of this section, cheese modern history is plagiarized from the text 'the book of cheese' by Charles Thom. It should be rewritten. JoshMuirWikipedia (talk) 09:37, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

East Asia

"Cheese is rarely found in East Asian cuisines, presumably for historical reasons." tagged as Dubious. "presumably" is unencyclopedic. First, see Talk:Cheese/Archive_3#Asia, and Talk:Cheese/Archive_3#What_about_paneer.3F and Talk:Cheese/Archive_3#East_Asia! Maybe it is mainly for historical reasons, more so than lactose intolerance, maybe not. Lactose_intolerance#Diet seems to be relatively well-written and sourced. I propose we copy some of that content here. Agreed? --Elvey^(t•c) 01:21, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

Agree. Perhaps draft here on Talk first for review. Thanks. --Zefr (talk) 01:35, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

wrong information

the article says wrong information, francia and germania are not the no1 consumers of cheese, the worldwide no1 consumer of cheese is hellas. [4] [5]. the article is wrong! it uses bad reference which does not include the hellenic republique!! Κώστας Μαρτινίδης (talk) 02:15, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 March 2017

add some of the flavors of cheese Birdiebird89 (talk) 16:32, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. DRAGON BOOSTER ★ 16:35, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 19 December 2017

change sellar to vendor 160.7.25.157 (talk) 15:51, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

 Not done there is no use of "sellar" in the article (and there is nothing wrong with the single use of seller) - Arjayay (talk) 16:13, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

On page one, there is an error

Please fix the error on page 1!

Aidan.kinseys (talk) 00:43, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

@Aidan.kinseys: You'll need to be more specific, both about the nature of the error and where it is. —C.Fred (talk) 00:44, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

    @User:C.Fredie thank you for clarifying.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aidan.kinseys (talk • contribs) 00:46, 2 February 2018 (UTC) 

Almost certainly inaccurate

"There is a legend – with variations – about the discovery of cheese by an Arab trader who used this method of storing milk." Earlier, the section says cheese may have already been discovered 10.000 years ago. Now I'm no expert on Arabs but I'm willing to bet all I have that they're not 10.000 years old. This "legend" must have been misquoted. Bataaf van Oranje (Prinsgezinde) (talk) 20:53, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

explain us this better on the Page please!--AlfaRocket (talk) 19:41, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

Can we remove? This sounds like historical revisionism. Also, since when did we trust "legends" for history? We have Egyptian tombs, some record in Poland, in China, and in Rome well before this legend. Alton Brown thinks this legend is true (see the cheese episode), but it's completely absurd. Bulmabriefs144 (talk) 04:07, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

Reordered

I found the history section on cheese horribly disorganized. I chopped it into distinct paragraphs, from 8000 BC, to most recent claim. Also, it clearly was at one point organized differently because after I did the reorder, some paragraphs made more sense. Meaning someone actually deliberately screwed it up for some stupid reason. Bulmabriefs144 (talk) 04:12, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

Gallery

I would added 10000 of more about cheese picture into gallery and added three more picture into a part of cheese, I hope anybody can helping me to finding about the cheese picture into Gallery, I think the cheese article will need some best picture in this article, I think adding some cheese pictures of collection is not vandalism for the article, Just I think adding the gallery is need for about the cheese articles. User:Geoffreyrabbit (talk) 15:19, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 July 2018

White cheese is made from goat milk and most Turkish people eat it a lot. Alpine1000 (talk) 11:32, 29 July 2018 (UTC) Alpine1000 (talk) 11:37, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: Not an edit request with source provided. --Zefr (talk) 16:52, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 December 2018

Could you link the word "rennet" to the Rennet wiki page (https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Rennet)? Thanks! JBookert (talk) 17:55, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

 Already done - It's already linked three times that I can see in the article: the first mention in the lead, as well as the first mentions in the Production and Cultural attitudes sections. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 18:06, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 January 2019

Sylvia Schmitt created cheese. Bridget18 (talk) 16:17, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: no edit request or draft was made, and no source provided.--Zefr (talk) 16:19, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Please add the following Indian section to the history

The earliest reference of cheese in India dates back to 1400 BCE.

222.164.212.168 (talk) 17:56, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

References

 Not done: not strong historical sources; no draft provided. --Zefr (talk) 16:36, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Is the Rind edible?

Nowhere in the article does it discuss whether a rind is edible or not. or which rinds are edible and which aren't. 99.42.89.21 (talk) 11:37, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

The opening sentence is poorly written

The opening sentence parenthetically mentions the textures and flavours of cheese before actually saying what it is.

“Cheese is a dairy product derived from milk that is produced in a wide range of flavors, textures, and forms by coagulation of the milk protein casein.”

It should read something like: “Cheese is a dairy product derived from milk that is formed by the coagulation of the protein casein. It is produced in a wide range of flavors, textures.”

In any case if that change is not satisfactory at least use correct grammar by changing the “that” to “which” in the original.

Scotia70 (talk) 08:55, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 May 2019

Shantelle12345678910 (talk) 01:55, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

cheese is a dairy product produced by cows originally.

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. QueerFilmNerd^talk 02:02, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

edit request Cultural Attitudes

The line "Rennet derived from animal slaughter, and thus cheese made with animal-derived rennet, is not vegetarian." does not qualify all types of vegetarians. There are portions of vegetarianism which allow for the consumption of cheeses with traditional rennet. Secondly, the process of rennet collection is covered directly on the rennet page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.56.188.218 (talk) 14:20, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Biased review reference

Reference #38 is the sole source of the claims about CHD and SF intake from cheese. This review was funded by the Dairy Research Institute and it should be considered a biased source.

Why is this protected? Are there special interests being protected? Damosurfer (talk) 19:33, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

I agree, so rewrote the section with more general references. In the clinical trial review literature, there are few (or no) high-quality sources, mainly because diet studies (specifically controlling cheese consumption) are difficult to design and control all variables of food consumption without restricting the study subjects to a hospital research center for months. Best to just follow the reviews and advice of professional organizations. As a source of saturated fat, cheese consumption and cardiovascular disease risk have further association discussed at Saturated fat and cardiovascular disease. --Zefr (talk) 20:37, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

Production/export

Someone is deliberately misstating the source about what percentage of various countries’ cheese is exported. The table in the source shows what percentage of all cheese exports are from various countries not what percentage of each country’s cheese is exported. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:641:500:4dc8:b0ec:24ae:c09c:32f4 (talk) 04:43, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

Edit request: Initial Photo

I was just reading this article and was struck by the first image - that of Red Hawk Cheese, which I'd never heard of. I figured it was significant in some way, but turns out it's just a random variety of cheese. Would it not be more appropriate for the first image to be of either a very common cheese (like mozzarella) or of a historically significant cheese? e.g. feta (similar to earliest forms of cheese) or gruyere (first industrially produced cheese) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.205.204.236 (talk) 22:49, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 June 2020

Please include non dairy cheeses in content and so change description to say “ cheese is a product made using dairy or plant sources” instead of “is a dairy product” Cbarnaba (talk) 11:31, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

That is not the common meaning of the word "cheese". Analogues are listed on Cheese analogue. – Thjarkur (talk) 11:41, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Production of cheese – 2014 From whole cow milk

Under the chart Production of cheese – 2014 From whole cow milk - it say the european union with 9 tonnes. since the european union is not a country should it be removed from the list??--2001:8003:59DB:4100:5DCC:5D99:9A06:3E00 (talk) 05:58, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 September 2020

Cheese is a rats favorite food and in tom and jerry jerry loves cheese. 173.56.67.250 (talk) 14:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. -- Ab207 (talk) 14:54, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Cheese wheel redirects here

...but this article doesn't say much about cheese wheels except for its use in idioms and expressions. I noticed this has been brought up before in 2012: Talk:Cheese/Archive 3#Cheese_Wheel Is there a better article we can redirect Cheese wheel to? Cheesemaking and History of cheese do not discuss cheese wheels either. Sn1per (talk) 23:50, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Truckle, maybe? Though we probably could have an article on the wheel itself, with a section containing the information at Truckle, as it is pretty brief; happy days, Lindsay^Hello 09:50, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 November 2020

The link in the first paragraph to coagulation goes to blood coagulation, not milk. 2A01:4C8:72:A70B:24E0:199A:3079:4118 (talk) 18:10, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

 Done – Thjarkur (talk) 18:23, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 March 2021

cheese cheese cheese BroskiGS (talk) 20:49, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

@BroskiGS: edit requests are for requesting changes to articles. If you want to experiment with editing, please use the WP:SANDBOX RudolfRed (talk) 20:55, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Effect on sleep and dreaming

Cheese reputedly helps sleep, and makes dreams more vivid (except Cheshire where dreams are not recalled), according to the British Cheese Board. I think we should have a section in the cheese article about this. Does anyone know of good sources for such a section? FreeFlow99 (talk) 18:36, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Cheese is actually a mini alien that hides in the form of cheese and eats your organs — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.112.114.159 (talk) 18:59, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

"Chees" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Chees. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 April 2#Chees until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Anarchyte (talk • work) 05:05, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 April 2021

cheese is important and I need to let it free by editing LMAO NUBCAKEPIZZA27th (talk) 17:24, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Renat 17:26, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

Etymology problem

The etymology section begins by claiming... Whoops. I was off the mark on this. I'm just going to delete that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Foot hypnotist (talk • contribs) 19:27, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

To editor Foot hypnotist:  Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Are you saying that the Cassell's Latin Dictionary does not support the claim? or that the Dictionary does support the claim but is incorrect? In any case, Wikipedia will need an independent, secondary, reliable source to support what you say. Thank you for your input! P.I. Ellsworth  ed. ^put'r there 03:39, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 January 2022

Please remove "and" from the beginning of the first sentence. It doesn't make any sense to say "cheese is a dairy product and produced in..." 122.150.71.249 (talk) 03:43, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Fair enough;  Done. Happy days ~ Lindsay^Hello 08:42, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 January 2022 (2)

In the "Etymology" section, please remove

That gave rise to chese (in Middle English) and cīese or cēse (in Old English).

and add

That gave rise to cīese or cēse (in Old English) and chese (in Middle English).

It makes more sense to put Old English before Middle English, since OE preceded ME. 122.150.71.249 (talk) 21:47, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

 Done Mindmatrix 22:29, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Images

I'm not going to do it unilaterally right now, but maybe a little thought: The lead image is (and has been for years) not an especially good one to illustrate the subject. Red Hawk cheese is a niche product, made by one dairy in one location (which is thus getting extra exposure); seems to me that it would be better either to have a selection of cheeses (the currently third image, for example, or another further down the article) or, if we want a single example, something which is much more universal than Red Hawk ~ Parmesan, perhaps, or cheddar, the single most popular cheese in the world ~ and thus better provides and image of the subject. If we can establish a consensus on this, it might prevent the addition of more pictures of cheese which some editors like ~ there's one of feta there as i write which, like Red Hawk, is not especially good as a lead image. Thoughts? Happy days ~ Lindsay^Hello 09:00, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Process inaccurate

"The solid curds are then separated from the liquid whey and pressed into finished cheese. This is not universal for all cheeses and thus needs an edit. Not true for cottage cheese and most fresh cheeses which are often not separated and usually not pressed. Better as "For most cheeses, the solid curds..." 70.187.192.243 (talk) 19:15, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Total carbon footprint of cheese?

If I read the sources and did the arithmetic right it adds up to about the same as Spain. Anyone like to check that using your own sources and arithmetic? Chidgk1 (talk) 18:20, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 July 2022

Serial commas appear in most of the introduction, but there's a spot where one is missing. Please add a comma after "chives". 49.198.51.54 (talk) 11:02, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

 Done — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 12:38, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

quick fix

paragraph 2 needs brackets around annatto to make it a wiki link

like this: annatto

because a lot of people don't know that annatto is a simple seed 73.170.203.143 (talk) 05:22, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

 Not done The word is already wlinked, and has been for a long time. Happy days ~ Lindsay^Hello 06:16, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 November 2022

Please amend this

Most cheeses achieve their final shape when the curds are pressed into a mold or form.

like so:

Most cheeses achieve their final shape when the curds are pressed into a mold or form, traditionally producing large cheese wheels or small barrel-shaped truckles.

Thank you. 2A00:23C6:54CF:1001:41CA:F5BB:9F2E:FEB1 (talk) 21:00, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

 Not done. Too many different types of cheeses to generalize to "wheels" and "truckles". Perhaps that information is best suited for Cheesemaking. ◢  Ganbaruby!  (talk) 03:32, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

Vlach cheese. Not known?

The contribution of Vlachs to the fabrication of Cheese in Balkans is not well known by many editors. Vlachs were and are the main producers of cheese in Balkans. They were known as the shepherds of Balkans. Their cheese was appreciated in Constantinople as I showed in reference. Also they are connected to the "Feta" cheese made in Greece. Mestter (talk) 13:29, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

This is wikipedia. Half of them arent cultured enough to know what head cheese is. 2600:8804:6F0F:6D00:90CC:E32F:9F13:AD92 (talk) 06:41, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 November 2023

cheese — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.33.33.5 (talk) 12:50, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 December 2023

there is a typo on a cheese part. Tristenss (talk) 01:02, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. - FlightTime (open channel) 01:10, 30 December 2023 (UTC)