Talk:Charles I of England/GA2

GA Review

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Reviewer: Mark Miller (talk · contribs) 22:43, 17 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Have some patience with this review, it may take a little time just to check quick decline criteria and to verify reference formatting as it looks like the article is using two different forms or citation style and I am uncertain as to how that immediately effects the article if at all. I do believe that we are to use one form of citation and not switch between two. While it appear the formatting begins at a point and does not return to the other format I am unclear if this passes GA. I will look into this before I begin the review. Also I am requesting the major contributor and/or nominator to feel free to look into this themselves to check our policy on this before the review officially begins. Thanks.--Mark Miller (talk) 22:43, 17 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for agreeing to review. I have amended the citation style. DrKay (talk) 20:50, 19 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Quick decline criteria

An article can be failed without further review if, prior to the review, it has cleanup banners that are obviously still valid. These include {{cleanup}}, {{POV}}, {{unreferenced}} or large numbers of {{fact}}, {{citation needed}}, {{clarifyme}}, or similar tags. (See also {{QF-tags}}). If the article is a long way from meeting any one of the six good article criteria then it can be failed without being placed on hold. If copyright infringements are found in a nominated article then it can be failed without further review. In all other cases a full review against the six criteria is to be conducted and the nominator given a chance to address any issues.

Article appears to be stable and free of clean up tag/banners.--Mark Miller (talk) 22:32, 19 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Review criteria

1.Well-written:

a.the prose is clear and concise, respects copyright laws, and the spelling and grammar are correct; and

British/English variants seem consistently used. Spelling and grammar appear appropriate.--Mark Miller (talk) 23:13, 19 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

b.it complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.

Appears to comply with MOS. The reference section is split into three sections:

1.explanatory footnotes that give information which is too detailed or awkward to be in the body of the article, 2.citation footnotes (either short citations or full citations) that connect specific material in the article with specific sources, 3.full citations to sources, if short citations are used in the footnotes. I think there should be a separation by subeheader for the full source information to be clear what we are looking at. Suggest "Notes" (the explanatory notes section as it is titled now) "References" (the short citations for the individual segments of material) and "Sources" (the full source information the citations derive from}.--Mark Miller (talk) 03:57, 23 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Added. DrKay (talk) 12:08, 26 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

_{*Note: The early life section seemed over weighted by sectioning that did not seem needed for such a small section. It was this reviewer's opinion that it gave undue weight and drew attention to subjects in a manner that was not needed. I will say that, as a comparison to this former feature article and to simply demonstrate how it would be acceptable I used Charles II of England. Although a smaller section in that article does separate even smaller sections, they are also much more important subjects for the period and section. Since this is not an outright reason to hold back a GA rating, reverting that sectioning back would not change compliance to MOS in my opinion.--Mark Miller (talk) 05:39, 22 October 2013 (UTC)}[reply]

2.Verifiable with no original research:

a. Yit contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline;

b.Yit provides in-line citations from reliable sources for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons—science-based articles should follow the scientific citation guidelines; and

c.Yit contains no original research.

3.Broad in its coverage: a.it addresses the main aspects of the topic;

and

Article appears to be broad in coverage.--Mark Miller (talk) 02:56, 21 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

b. Yit stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).

4.Neutral:

Y it represents viewpoints fairly and without bias, giving due weight to each.

5.Stable:

it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.

Y No ongoing edit wars or content disputes. Light vandalism expected of a subject studied in mass from a younger, less professional student group, but does not appear to effect stability in any way.--Mark Miller (talk) 03:02, 21 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

6.Illustrated, if possible, by images:

a.Yimages are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content; and

_{These images have been deleted as non free, third party copyright claims and can easily be replaced with free images:
:*We cannot accept File:Anne of Denmark; King Charles I when Prince of Wales; King James I of England and VI of Scotland by Simon De Passe (2).jpg. While Commons allows this work on their site, all third party copyright claims cannot be used on Wikipedia. This is basically a copyrighted work and therefore our policy would require it to be uploaded as a non-free image with full rationale and only if there were no way to replace it with a free image, and here it certainly can be replaced. For this reason the image has been removed.--Mark Miller (talk) 03:12, 21 October 2013 (UTC)}[reply]

_{We cannot accept File:King Charles I by Gerrit van Honthorst.jpg. While Commons allows this work on their site, all third party copyright claims cannot be used on Wikipedia. This is basically a copyrighted work and therefore our policy would require it to be uploaded as a non-free image with full rationale and only if there were no way to replace it with a free image, and here it certainly can be replaced. For this reason the image has been removed.--Mark Miller (talk) 03:26, 21 October 2013 (UTC)}[reply]
_{We cannot accept File:Thomas Wentworth, 1st Earl of Strafford by Sir Anthony Van Dyck.jpg. While Commons allows this work on their site, all third party copyright claims cannot be used on Wikipedia. This is basically a copyrighted work and therefore our policy would require it to be uploaded as a non-free image with full rationale and only if there were no way to replace it with a free image, and here it certainly can be replaced. For this reason the image has been replaced in order not to break the double image and caption.--Mark Miller (talk) 05:16, 21 October 2013 (UTC)}[reply]
_{We cannot accept File:King Charles I from NPG.jpg. While Commons allows this work on their site, all third party copyright claims cannot be used on Wikipedia. This is basically a copyrighted work and therefore our policy would require it to be uploaded as a non-free image with full rationale and only if there were no way to replace it with a free image, and here it certainly can be replaced. For this reason the image has been removed.--Mark Miller (talk) 06:20, 21 October 2013 (UTC)} Done by reviewer.[reply]

All of the images mentioned above are the copyright of the National Portrait Gallery in the UK only, due to the "Sweat of the Brow" doctrine which the United States does not recognize. A legal threat has been documented on all of the images from this set to the original uploader (at Commons) and communications to the Wikimedia Foundation have gone unanswered. It appears that these images do not fall afoul of our policies, regardless of the claims of the National Portrait Gallery and their representatives. I will attempt to add them back as time permits or others may do so at the leisure or in haste!--Mark Miller (talk) 20:56, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

These images have issues needing to be addressed, replaced or removed to meet GA:

There is an issue needing to be addressed on File:Charles I at his trial.jpg. PD ART notice for template parameters, country of origin copyright law and US copyright law may differ.--Mark Miller (talk) 06:09, 21 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Please explain what you mean. Images like text copyright are covered by US law. --PBS (talk)

GA articles require all images not violate MOS, policy or guidelines for copyright in anyway. these images have third party claims directly on their image pages. this is not acceptable for GA or FA.--Mark Miller (talk) 23:47, 26 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Amended. DrKay (talk) 12:08, 26 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think the point being made is that the copyright claim only holds in the UK. It's fine to use the image in the US, where the wikimedia servers are based. The warning on the file page is saying that the image can be used on wikipedia but might not be usable in other jurisdictions. Some of these images are already in use in featured articles and are featured pictures: e.g. File:George Douglas Campbell, 8th Duke of Argyll by George Frederic Watts.jpg, File:The Anti-Slavery Society Convention, 1840 by Benjamin Robert Haydon.jpg, File:Charles Robert Darwin by John Collier.jpg, File:Darnley stage 3.jpg. DrKay (talk) 07:59, 27 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

b.Yimages are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions

Some of the images have captions making claims unsupported by inline citation to a reliable source. Some do. Please review all images to simplify captions, remove all claims that are likely to be challenged or please reference the following claims:

In the section "English Civil War": "A nineteenth-century painting depicting Charles before the battle of Edgehill, 1642" There is nothing particular to make this image clearly as captioned.--Mark Miller (talk) 06:37, 21 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
In the section "Trial": "Charles (in the dock with his back to the viewer) facing the High Court of Justice, 1649" also is a claim that is likely to be challenged and requires a reliable source.--Mark Miller (talk) 06:49, 21 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
In the "Legacy" section:"Another of Delaroche's paintings, Charles I Insulted by Cromwell's Soldiers, is an allegory for later events in France and the mocking of Christ". Such an interpretation or analysis requires a reliable source.--Mark Miller (talk) 06:49, 21 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The clue is in the title of the painting![1] So it is unlikely to be challenged so no need to put in a citation.
Likewise clicking on the image gives details of the picture and the source from whence it came.
I agree.

--PBS (talk) 12:17, 26 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Captions on all three amended. Further details from the sources added to each of the file pages. DrKay (talk) 12:08, 26 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have no idea what is being argued or challenged here. be specific please. Which image are you referring to?--Mark Miller (talk) 23:45, 26 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've amended all three, and edited my comment above to clarify. DrKay (talk) 07:59, 27 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am prepared to list this article as GA --Mark Miller (talk) 15:02, 4 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

User:Mark Miller I have asked you on your talk page a specific question about copyright I am copying it here so that others can see the question an your answer:

"We cannot accept File:Anne of Denmark; King Charles I when Prince of Wales; King James I of England and VI of Scotland by Simon De Passe (2).jpg" Who says? because I do not see such a restriction in Wikipedia:Image use policy indeed it specifically says "For example, a straight-on photograph of the Mona Lisa is ineligible for copyright", or under Wikipedia:List_of_policies#Legal -- PBS (talk) 14:09, 26 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

On Wikipedia, third party copyright claims restrict their use as non free images. These may be hosted on Commons but are not used on an FA or GA article. If the images are returned I will simply call the GA declined.--Mark Miller (talk) 23:38, 26 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I used File:Anne of Denmark; King Charles I when Prince of Wales; King James I of England and VI of Scotland by Simon De Passe (2).jpg as a test image, and I directed you to the policy on this issue. I do not find your answer very persuasive: "On Wikipedia, third party copyright claims restrict their use as non free images", yet you have not indicated under which policy you are drawing this conclusion. -- PBS (talk) 13:40, 27 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In this case, you were perfectly correct.--Mark Miller (talk) 21:04, 29 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have let this review go stale and will be returning to it shortly. I apologize for leaving it this long. I tend to get distracted easily...oh look...shiny thing!--Mark Miller (talk) 02:01, 2 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]