Talk:Characters of Final Fantasy XII/Archive 2
 | This is an archive of past discussions about Characters of Final Fantasy XII. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
| Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Penelos Age?
Uhm...you know, the game has been released in germany a few days ago, and....uhm....my english sucks, sorry...^^v Anyway, in the german instruction booklet, the profile of Penele says, that she is 17 years old...I mean of course her could have been changed (maybe because of her outfit, or something like that), but....uhm.....what is that? ôô—Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.16.235.86 (talk • contribs)
- What is what...? o__o Her age?—ウルタプ 20:45, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, her age was changed. She was 16 y.o. in the Japanese version. Not quite sure why SquareEnix would do this, though. 私はBluerです 03:19, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
Uhm...sorry, I forgot the "age" in one line...anyway, thanks for answering me. I guess it was because her shorts ^^" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 91.96.55.220 (talk • contribs) 20:07, 11 March 2007 (UTC).
- Characters in Western releases are sometimes made older than the original Japanese ages, especially in the United States. Compared to the rest of the world, the U.S. is generally much more conservative than their foreign counterparts when portraying minors in combat situations and sexually provocative attire. I'd heard they'd done the same thing with other games like Forbidden Siren (or just Siren in America), as well. However, despite the fact that Penelo's English language release age is merely a retcon, this is the English Wikipedia, so I suggest we either go with the European or American age, which is 17. Gamer Junkie 05:00, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
- English Wiki means we report things in the English language, it does not mean we exclude facts from other languages, a third of wiki would disappear otherwise, without Russian and Polish sources for the Napoleonic Wars and so many other things. Report both and the change. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.137.207.191 (talk) 06:16, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
- Characters in Western releases are sometimes made older than the original Japanese ages, especially in the United States. Compared to the rest of the world, the U.S. is generally much more conservative than their foreign counterparts when portraying minors in combat situations and sexually provocative attire. I'd heard they'd done the same thing with other games like Forbidden Siren (or just Siren in America), as well. However, despite the fact that Penelo's English language release age is merely a retcon, this is the English Wikipedia, so I suggest we either go with the European or American age, which is 17. Gamer Junkie 05:00, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Double trouble at Jote's entry
Okay, so there was a mention that Jote is Fran's and Mjrn's sister twice in her entry, so I edited it, but then someone put it back. Now I've edited it again, and given a reason for it, so I hope it stays as it is. Thanks! SamSandy 20:26, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Redirect to Vayne
Sorry, Bluer, inattentiveness on my part. I did, of course, mean to get rid of the Vayne->characters redirect (which I've hopefully done this time). --Made2Fade 00:39, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
Raz
Raz (ラズ, Razu): small bangaa and one of Reddas' henchpersons. While small in stature, he claims to know how to evaluate people by smelling them.
Uhm... Is Raz a bangaa? o_O —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.40.40.219 (talk • contribs) 20:43, 2 April 2007 (UTC).
- Yes. Check out Revenant Wings latest scans in the internet. Bluerです。 なにか? 20:58, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
GA tips
Couple tips: please use script cites for the entire text, and make sure the images have fair use rationale. Other than that, it looks like it's off to a solid start. — Deckiller 21:55, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
GA
The article has greatly improved since last time I read it less fancruft and it has enought images, more of those in game refs are due but for now it's good enough, please make sure all images have a fair use rationable. -凶 01:28, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
- Uuwaah, thank you :D Will attempt the rest to make it featured next. Bluerです。 なにか? 10:34, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
Gabranth's name
Is his name really Noah Gabranth and not Noah fon Ronsenburg? He clearly states that he doesn't deserve to use his first name (out of shame). So why would he use his "lastname"? Wouldn't that be just as shameful? Gabranth is an alias of his, isn't it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.114.96.32 (talk • contribs) 21:37, 10 April 2007
- The name Noah Gabranth is the name he used. His real name was Noah fon Ronsenburg, but he abandoned that name due to the reasons stated in the article. Gabranth is their mother's surname. He used that name Gabranth to abandon his past and in honor of their mother that died. So, in documentation, we just use the circulated name. Noah Gabranth is mentioned in the FFXII japanese game guide. Bluerです。 なにか? 22:00, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
- think of it like Darth Vader. He both. He used to be Noah Von Ronsenburg but now he's Judge Garbranth similaer to how Anakin Skywalker becam Darth Vader.
Road to FA
In light with the success of bringing Characters of Final Fantasy VIII to Featured status, and this article's achievement to GA, I am aspiring for the article to be an FA too. Some pointers to achieving FA (I think) includes;
- In-game citation for statements made in the article,
- Developer interview on character creation and influence.
Everyone can help do constructive edits to article, ofcourse, so please do. Bluerです。 なにか? 10:08, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
Separate character articles
All separate character pages have been redirected to this page due to the lack of out-of-universe perspective and redundant trivia. This was done due to the discussion on the WikiProject Final Fantasy talk page. :D Bluerです。 なにか? 13:29, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
Doctor Cid`s Age
I don`t think Cid`s age is 58. I changed it to 55 because the Bestiary claims that he is 55. And where did the picture of him goÉ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.166.38.252 (talk • contribs) 06:30, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
- His age is 58 according to the Clan Primer bestiary. Please, review your sources. The picture has been "transferred" to the FFWiki. — Blue。 07:22, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
Balthier is missing
Can someone fix this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.181.53.37 (talk) 03:12, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
- Fixed. — Blue。 05:53, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Fair use rationale for Image:FFXII-Gerun.JPG
Image:FFXII-Gerun.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 18:39, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
- Fixed - article link corrected. — Blue。 19:00, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Basch's surname, mistranslation
ATTN: Axem Titanium.
As you know, I've added the part about Basch's name possibly being a mistranslation. If absolutely all hint of OR is to be avoided, one could simply state that his name is "von Rosenberg" in the Euro. ver., isn't that a bit abrupt and lacking context? Personally, I thought that フォン・ローゼンバーグ is obviously the transliteration for "von Rosenberg/burg", and saying so shouldn't amount to OR, just as it is safe to assume that マイケル is Michael and ジョン is John. On the same token, "fon Rosenburg" is an awkward name to any English and German speaker, and one automatically suspect it to be a mistranslation. If you could think of how to provide this info in a way that satisfies you, please do go ahead and add it into the article. o 01:08, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
- The only way this is possibly permissible is that you give a source for it being a mistranslation, eg. developer comments or interviews. Wikipedia needs published sources; your thoughts are not notable. — Blue。 01:20, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
- I don't disagree that it might be a mistranslation. However, there are no verifiable sources that second your original opinion/synthesis of the katakana. Also, yes, mentioning "von Rosenberg in the Euro. ver." would be abrupt and not relevant to the English Wikipedia so it should not be included. Axem Titanium 01:37, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
- Re: Bluerfn: In that case, would it be acceptable to state that 1) フォン is the translit. for German von, 2) and ローゼンバーグ is the translit for English Rosenburg/berg, 3) English von is translit. as ヴォン and German Rosenburg/berg is translit. as ローゼンブルク/ベルク, and 4) the EU ver. of Basch's surname is "von Rosenberg". These are all facts that all point to one clear direction: either it's a mistranslation or a very peculiar localization decision. Would it be non-OR just because the obvious is not pointed out?
- Re: AT: It is relevant because English is a European language too! o 01:41, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
- I am sure that to state that Fon is the translit for the German von is OR until you can back it with a published source. Same goes for Ronsenberg. That's all there is to it. If there is a published source saying the name is a mistranslation, then there should be no problem. Simple as that. — Blue。 01:47, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
- You said that "von Rosenberg" appears in the German version, which is not relevant to the English Wikipedia. The romaji transliteration for the katakana already appears in parentheses. Let the readers decide what is and isn't mistranslated. Also, it may be in line with the creative interpretations by the localization team (like "manufacted", which isn't a real word but it's used in the game). The point is that we don't know and we are not in a position to point it out to the reader. Axem Titanium 01:50, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
- Okay, then. I don't feel strongly enough to debate further. I understand your reasons, but I just see it slightly differently. But as far as the transliterations I mentioned above, they are all standard translit. practice, backed up by existing usage (see this page for example). I didn't think one needs to have published sources to support this. o 01:59, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
- Like Axem says, it may be what the developers envisioned, and we're not the ones to decide. About sources, it is a good practice to insert published sources just in case a statement gets challenged, such as in this moment. Hope that helps clear some issues. — Blue。 02:07, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
- Okay, then. I don't feel strongly enough to debate further. I understand your reasons, but I just see it slightly differently. But as far as the transliterations I mentioned above, they are all standard translit. practice, backed up by existing usage (see this page for example). I didn't think one needs to have published sources to support this. o 01:59, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
- You said that "von Rosenberg" appears in the German version, which is not relevant to the English Wikipedia. The romaji transliteration for the katakana already appears in parentheses. Let the readers decide what is and isn't mistranslated. Also, it may be in line with the creative interpretations by the localization team (like "manufacted", which isn't a real word but it's used in the game). The point is that we don't know and we are not in a position to point it out to the reader. Axem Titanium 01:50, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
- I am sure that to state that Fon is the translit for the German von is OR until you can back it with a published source. Same goes for Ronsenberg. That's all there is to it. If there is a published source saying the name is a mistranslation, then there should be no problem. Simple as that. — Blue。 01:47, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
- I don't disagree that it might be a mistranslation. However, there are no verifiable sources that second your original opinion/synthesis of the katakana. Also, yes, mentioning "von Rosenberg in the Euro. ver." would be abrupt and not relevant to the English Wikipedia so it should not be included. Axem Titanium 01:37, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Ivalice is not German. Why do people get the impression that this Basch is a German? He may have a German name, but he is not German. He is a character from Ivalice. And Ivalice is not German. So if Square says its fon Ronsenberg, its fon Ronsenberg. Fon Ronsenberg may be an awkward name, but if Square had even cared it being awkward they wouldn't name characters Vaan, Penelo or Ba'gamanan. So use common sense, Ivalice is a fictional world, they don't make mistranslations; they name a character as they wish it to be named.219.95.171.62 12:55, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
- I disagree. The FF series, along with many other Japanese games, borrow from existing myths, cultures and languages. Excalibur and Ragnarok, for example, are borrowed from Arthurian and Norse myths, and are presumeably thus imagined by the developer, even though these myths plays no part in any of the FF worlds. Now, if the loc team translate them as X-kulliver and Lag'na Rock, they may be excersizing their creative license as the localizer, but one could also make a good case for calling it a mistranslation. O not 01:30, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
- I'm trying to understand how this is a controversy. He's called fon in the English game, so this encyclopedia will call him nothing but fon unless retconned by Revenant Wings, and that I highly doubt.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 01:32, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
- First, English WIKI means we inform people in English, that does not mean we ignore the differences between English things and German things. If its von Rosenburg in the German version thats worth mentioning. Saying that it might be a mistranslation is out of line though, thats an opinion, nothing supports it aside from original research, and in the end, his name is whatever it is printed as by Square. Second, yes, Excalibur and Ragnarok do show up in Final Fantasy, and alot of anime. At best, that is appreciation for the legends and cultures of other peoples, at worst, it is exploitation of the religions and beliefs of cultures that have changed radically enough to consider them foolish fairy tails and whoe's only remaining followers are a tiny minority (modern Aesir worshippers for example). Neighter case means that they are trying to literally bring these cultures into their games, when Midgardsormr shows up in the games he isn't the literal Midgardsormr, or even a very good likeness of him, instead is a boss with a cool name from history. I love the Final Fantasy series, but if its missing one thing its originality, all of the story lines are the same, the characters can always be described in the same similar phrases (lucky street child turned hero, princess seperated from her throne and guardian knight for instance). The spells haven't changed in my lifetime, not significantly anyways. The weapons change barely. And the names for things change hardly at all, there is always a Cid, Wedge, Biggs (as anagrams in 12), Masamune and Chocobos, sometimes they add a new sword or spear, but they do not make it up. Thats simply the way the Japanese produce things, 1 original idea with cool legends, add the legends remove the originality in sequals (see Kaiju films if you don't agree, nearly 30 Godzilla now, anime, with series like Detective Loki, or their beautiful beautiful videogame products which chiefly rely on characters and situations made over 20 years ago). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.137.207.191 (talk) 06:39, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
- Alright, the shorter version, cause I started to ramble there. Theres a claymore in the game right? Does it look like a claymore? Well, no, claymores are straight double edged blades of about 5-6 feet in total length, about a foot or more in the handle, usually with a V shaped guard with the occasional fleur-de-lis styled tips (or maybe thats just my French blood and ancestral memories of the Auld Alliance). It also does not resemble the later (1700s) styled one handed double edged basket hilted variety. It more resembles a big Chinese dao. Are they Scottish? Well, I don't see no Scotland in the game, so I doubt it, I read a couple of Scottish accents (cannae and dinnae crap), but I think thats more for the blue collar character it adds, like talking in Cornish. Are they Gaellic? Again, no sight of any gaels that I know of. It does fit the loose gaellic definition of the sword as I recall but, but every greatsword does I believe, that definition being big sword. So whys it a claymore, cause they say so, cause claymores are cool and give people the idea of a big sharp killer sword, its the stereotypical greatsword (the first one in the game that isn't one of a type and in history it was one of the first to be in common use anywhere in Europe, mostle Britain and Ireland of course. Of course alot of them (most I believe) were imported from Germany (before the zweihander came about) and Scots mercenaries were fairly popular as far away as Russia (one of the better Napoleanic Wars Russian generals was a Scot, and the Poles loved them to command their otherwise despised infantry, along with alot of other mercenaries). Like wise, Fon or Von gives a certain air of nobility (as in of noble blood) which might mean a knight, and the Japanese seem to think German when they think European knight, probably something to do with pretty good relations since the 1600s. Balthier on the other hand has the English accent that makes a knowledgable person think of the likes of Sir Francis Drake. Things like that can help describe the character without needing to much actual information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.137.207.191 (talk) 04:08, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
- You do realize this issue is already resolved like six months ago? — Blue。 04:26, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
- How very short sighted of you, how many articles get merged and then split and merged again, I can think of a few, mostly game articles (we seem to attract the more opionated fanboy types). If someone else who feels strongly about this arguement comes on decides to start it up again whats to stop him? Because it was resolved in the past, maybe not resolved to his satisfaction. It doesn't hurt any to just put in my two cents so I might as well, might be useful.
- You do realize this issue is already resolved like six months ago? — Blue。 04:26, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
- Alright, the shorter version, cause I started to ramble there. Theres a claymore in the game right? Does it look like a claymore? Well, no, claymores are straight double edged blades of about 5-6 feet in total length, about a foot or more in the handle, usually with a V shaped guard with the occasional fleur-de-lis styled tips (or maybe thats just my French blood and ancestral memories of the Auld Alliance). It also does not resemble the later (1700s) styled one handed double edged basket hilted variety. It more resembles a big Chinese dao. Are they Scottish? Well, I don't see no Scotland in the game, so I doubt it, I read a couple of Scottish accents (cannae and dinnae crap), but I think thats more for the blue collar character it adds, like talking in Cornish. Are they Gaellic? Again, no sight of any gaels that I know of. It does fit the loose gaellic definition of the sword as I recall but, but every greatsword does I believe, that definition being big sword. So whys it a claymore, cause they say so, cause claymores are cool and give people the idea of a big sharp killer sword, its the stereotypical greatsword (the first one in the game that isn't one of a type and in history it was one of the first to be in common use anywhere in Europe, mostle Britain and Ireland of course. Of course alot of them (most I believe) were imported from Germany (before the zweihander came about) and Scots mercenaries were fairly popular as far away as Russia (one of the better Napoleanic Wars Russian generals was a Scot, and the Poles loved them to command their otherwise despised infantry, along with alot of other mercenaries). Like wise, Fon or Von gives a certain air of nobility (as in of noble blood) which might mean a knight, and the Japanese seem to think German when they think European knight, probably something to do with pretty good relations since the 1600s. Balthier on the other hand has the English accent that makes a knowledgable person think of the likes of Sir Francis Drake. Things like that can help describe the character without needing to much actual information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.137.207.191 (talk) 04:08, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
- First, English WIKI means we inform people in English, that does not mean we ignore the differences between English things and German things. If its von Rosenburg in the German version thats worth mentioning. Saying that it might be a mistranslation is out of line though, thats an opinion, nothing supports it aside from original research, and in the end, his name is whatever it is printed as by Square. Second, yes, Excalibur and Ragnarok do show up in Final Fantasy, and alot of anime. At best, that is appreciation for the legends and cultures of other peoples, at worst, it is exploitation of the religions and beliefs of cultures that have changed radically enough to consider them foolish fairy tails and whoe's only remaining followers are a tiny minority (modern Aesir worshippers for example). Neighter case means that they are trying to literally bring these cultures into their games, when Midgardsormr shows up in the games he isn't the literal Midgardsormr, or even a very good likeness of him, instead is a boss with a cool name from history. I love the Final Fantasy series, but if its missing one thing its originality, all of the story lines are the same, the characters can always be described in the same similar phrases (lucky street child turned hero, princess seperated from her throne and guardian knight for instance). The spells haven't changed in my lifetime, not significantly anyways. The weapons change barely. And the names for things change hardly at all, there is always a Cid, Wedge, Biggs (as anagrams in 12), Masamune and Chocobos, sometimes they add a new sword or spear, but they do not make it up. Thats simply the way the Japanese produce things, 1 original idea with cool legends, add the legends remove the originality in sequals (see Kaiju films if you don't agree, nearly 30 Godzilla now, anime, with series like Detective Loki, or their beautiful beautiful videogame products which chiefly rely on characters and situations made over 20 years ago). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.137.207.191 (talk) 06:39, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
- I'm trying to understand how this is a controversy. He's called fon in the English game, so this encyclopedia will call him nothing but fon unless retconned by Revenant Wings, and that I highly doubt.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 01:32, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Anyways, someone deleted what I had up before so it appears I needed express myself more clearly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.137.207.191 (talk) 16:25, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
Fair use rationale for Image:Basch.jpg
Image:Basch.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
