Talk:Chapel Hill, North Carolina/Archives/2015

Unfocused and Disorganized

The article could use quite a bit of overhaul. The article treats Chapel Hill, UNC, and Carrboro as a single broad entity in several cases. Examples:

Morehead Planetarium belongs in discussions of UNC, not Chapel Hill, as does the Planetarium Sundial. Businesses: While I agree that BCBS is noteworthy as the largest private employer in Chapel Hill, there are other businesses listed that have little or no local relevance. One or two look like they've been inserted just to increase the visibility of the business in question. Culture: Cat's Cradle is a Carrboro venue, not Chapel Hill (the article even notes this but includes it anyway) Open Eye Cafe: Again, a Carrboro business with no presence in Chapel Hill. Media: Several non-local media sources are named (as are University sources), but WCHL (Chapel Hill's radio station) is not. James Taylor: His Wikipedia bio indicates that his family were Carrboro residents rather than Chapel Hill.

While none of these examples (and I am sure I could produce more) are make-or-break, in aggregate they indicate a severe lack of focus in the article. If this was an article on the Chapel Hill-Carrboro REGION that would be fine, but this article is meant to specifically focus on Chapel Hill as a city.

I hope to get time to clean up some of this, but I think the article overall needs to be cleaned up, re-focused and reorganized. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gunnk (talk • contribs) 14:26, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Food Scene

I'd like to see more re. why the coffee shops are notable. E.g., "Chapel Hill has more independently owned cafe's per capita..." etc. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.190.193.228 (talk) 15:38, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

OK, the Food Scene section is becoming a beachead for advertising for some things that aren't notable and aren't generally identified with Chapel Hill. Some things are institutions. Others are not. Where do we draw the line?

Digitalican (talk) 17:10, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

I've done an initial clean-up of the food area. I eliminated the list of coffee shops/bars (which had no bars and at least one coffee shop outside of Chapel Hill). The listing was not topical as many of the locations were not noteworthy or of particular significance to the town. I suggest that we limit "notable restaurants" and the like to institutions that are notable due to long-term historical value (if it was still around, the Rathskellar would fall in this category) or have won national recognition of some form (featured in national media or winning national competitions). These criteria should allow us to judge whether or not a particular establishment is relevant and worthy of inclusion.

Accordingly, I support removal of any establishment for which a citation verifying relevance cannot be established. I think a couple of the restaurants currently on the list simply need citations added, a couple need removal, and a couple need to be added (such as Carolina Brewery which has won gold and silver medals at the World Beer Competition). I hope to make some of these changes as I have time. Gunnk (talk) 16:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Good work! I concur entirely. I would also go further and suggest that an institution that does not (or cannot establish) a Wikipedia entry of its own should probably not be included. I've tried to draw the line for Carrboro, but don't feel qualified as I don't live in Chapel Hill. Digitalican (talk) 18:23, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Expand History (But Enough With The Buses); "City vs. Town"

As a recent UNC grad, I'd love to see an expansion of the history (I'm not well enough versed in CH history to do it myself), and there is too much written on the free buses. Believe me, there was nobody who loved the fare-free buses than did I (I could afford to live away from campus because of them), but it's not really that important in the town's history. I have trimmed the section down.

Also, the statement concerning "city" vs. "town" status at the beginning is not important enough to be in the article. In North Carolina, there is no official criteria for calling an incorporated area a "city" or "town;" it is up to the community itself (and the "vibe" that it wants to project to outsiders). Chapel Hill and Cary are among the largest communities in the state and are "towns," but two small communities in my home county (Brunswick) that are officially "cities." If the Chapel Hill municipal gov't considered becoming a "city" to be important, it could petition Raleigh and the change would happen ASAP. I have never understood why there is no official criteria; perhaps because it means more work for the state government.--Bjeversole 06:19, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

To my knowledge, there are cities, towns, hamlets, and counties. Durham, N.C. is not what you would consider a county. However, Chapel Hill could be defined as a county, because it lies within a larger municipality. Durham, N.C. is a city. Why do southern municipalities insist on misidentifying themselves? That fragments and stunts the growth of those social and mental environments. Residents of these places often do not posses an accurate sense of self, and it's obvious as to why. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.248.174.252 (talk) 19:40, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

In North Carolina a county is a legal administrative divisions with its own government. A county may contain incorporated and unincorporated municipalities. Durham, NC (the incorporated municipality) lies more or less inside Durham County. Chapel Hill lies more or less inside Orange County (pray tell what larger municipality does Chapel Hill lie within?) Orange County has only three incorporated municipalities: Chapel Hill, Hillsborough and Carrboro. I think I don't understand the point you are trying to make. --Digitalican (talk) 19:56, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

Chapel Hill as 4th major improv city?

The town has also become one of the largest centers of improvisational comedy in the country, behind Chicago, New York City, and Los Angeles.

Is there any credible source for the above statement? No disrepect intended for the good people of Chapel Hill, but I have to question whether either nationally-known comedians or general comedy audiences would would be likely to think of Chapel Hill right after Chicago, NYC, and LA as a major source of improv. My question is partially motivated by the citing of Chapel Hill High School's Improv Company, which one en:Wikiquote user seems to feel is quoteworthy, even though the much more famous Fiorello H. LaGuardia High School of Music & Art and Performing Arts (the basis for Fame) has no similar Wikiquote article. If this is a real oversight, I'd like to know. — Jeff Q (talk) 28 June 2005 05:01 (UTC)

IMO it is a non-neutral point of view statement and seems to be plugging a specific entertainment troupe. Not exactly educational.--BAW 21:42, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

I live in Carrboro (which may as well be Chapel Hill), and other than a comedy club or two (like any college town), I know of no signifcant improv culture. There is a pretty good local theater scene, and an excellent music scene... but improv? I think that Chapel Hill is "behind Chicago, NYC, and LA" in the comedy scene in the same way it's behind them in population. I'm removing this pending some better argument.--Schepers 22:55, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

There's an improv festival in Carrboro that attracts people from nationwide-- the Dirty South festival. Some of the events are held in Chapel Hill.--Gloriamarie (talk) 00:06, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Ben Folds

Ben Folds is listed in the Who's who in Chapel Hill section, but Chapel Hill is not mentioned in the Ben Folds article. I suspect Ben Folds does not belong in this list. Winston-Salem is mentioned in the Ben Folds article as his birthplace. ~ ApolloCreed 00:30, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

• See W-S Journal article where it references him as being currently from CH. Also Ben Folds Five says band started in CH. -Jcbarr 02:18, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Chapel Hill is referenced in quite a few Ben Folds Five songs. This should probably be mentioned.--Gloriamarie (talk) 00:05, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

removed paragraph

I just removed the following paragraph from the history section:

On Feb. 3, 2006, an immigrated Iranian recent UNC graduate used a rented Jeep to ram a crowd of students at a popular campus gathering place and later told police he'd done it out of anger over America's treatment of Moslems.

My feeling is that there are probably many crimes committed by UNC grads, and this is not really notable for the town at large. I am moving it here for further discussion. Thoughts? --Hansnesse 00:56, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

I should note that this source has no one killed in the incident (which I think took place on Mar 3, not Feb 3 as stated). --Hansnesse 01:00, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

It's just a bit of breaking news - Mar 3 is the correct date, and I figure someone was just putting it there so that s/he could say s/he contributed to Wikipedia. A troubling news event, but it doesn't have a wide enough impact (at least it doesn't as of yet) to merit inclusion in the article on Chapel Hill. --Ted

There was a sniper on campus in 1995, so if that's not mentioned in the article, than this shouldn't be included either.THE evil fluffyface 14:44, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

removed kaze

if we list kaze under "who's who in chapel hill" then we have to list every amateur musician. no particular notability (yet) that warrants his inclusion on the list. 64.131.239.217 04:50, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Incomplete

The sentence at the end of the culture section is incomplete.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 152.163.100.135 (talk • contribs).

Coterminous

The Geography section says CH is "coterminous" with other nearby towns. I've never heard this word before and while it is in wiktionary, this seems like geographic jargon and not appropriate for a general-interest article. What's wrong with "adjacent" ? Jpp42 07:26, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Culture

Surely Polvo and Archers of Loaf deserve a mention, from an outsider's perspective at least. Very successful and influential musicians in their own right, having a massive influence on my music scene on the other side of the world. Not to mention Polvo being the creators of an entirely new genre...

And if it wasn't for these guys, I wouldn't be visiting Chapel Hill in the next year or so.

Cheers.

--218.215.199.170 16:44, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

I noticed the absence of Archers of Loaf but didn't add them due to not wanting to make the list of bands too long. But apart from the university (especially the basketball program) the 1990's indie rock scene is one of the most notable things about the town. The Cat's Cradle is a well known was very influential in developing the local and national post punk scene. Merge (and other labels, not just Mammoth) also very important. It may be worth breaking this off into it's own section.

208.120.37.224 (talk) 14:25, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Chapel Hill in both Orange and Durham Counties

The incorporated town limits of Chapel Hill do spill over into Durham County, just as the incorporated town limits of the city of Durham spill over into Orange County. Please see the map at Town of Chapel Hill, Maps, Existing Land Use --Hennap (talk) 03:43, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

This is only partially true. There are no incorporated city limits of Durham in Orange County, though there are some postal addresses from Durham in Orange County. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.70.143.66 (talk) 01:29, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Notable residents

A large number of the "notable residents" are either dead or no longer live in Chapel Hill. Andy Griffith, for example, lives in Manteo, and Elisha Mitchell died in 1857. There should be some distinction made for these former residents.

Also, why is Charles Kuralt listed as the editor of the Daily Tar Heel? He may have been editor when he was in college at UNC, but that is by far NOT the most notable thing Kuralt achieved. Why not list an accomplishment or job more people know him for -- like CBS journalist? —jyhill (talk) 22:30, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

This is a very good point. I changed the header to better reflect reality. Is this sufficient, do you think? Really very few of those listed still live there. Mark Foskey (talk) 03:37, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Another issue with the "notable residents" (besides it clearly not adhering to WP:NOT) is on the list are UNC alums, and do not have any apparent association to the town proper. The list should really be for people who are notable for their association with the town, rather than an indiscriminate list of people who have happened to have spent 4 odd years of their lives at UNC. --Mosmof (talk) 14:41, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Whoa! This is a bit of overkill. I'll agree on excluding people who lived in Carrboro or only matriculated at UNC Chapel Hill, but people like John Reid Edwards, Fred Brooks, and Dean Smith both work/worked and are residents of Chapel Hill.

Chapel Hill is somewhat of a company town. I don't think it's useful or meaningful to remove everyone associated with the University in any way. Confine the purge to those who have only attended UNC.

Also, why remove James Taylor? He went to Chapel Hill High School and was a resident. He did not attend UNC. Digitalican (talk) 07:32, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I've restored the four that you mentioned - also, I thought James Taylor was strictly a Carrboro resident, but the article clearly says otherwise. Mosmof (talk) 15:26, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I disagree with the removal of people who have lived in Chapel Hill for the four years they attended UNC. They lived in Chapel Hill, longer than John Edwards, as one example, has at this point. I consider myself to have lived in both my college towns, although I didn't live there for any reason other than attending college. A separate list of those people could be composed, but there's no reason to remove them all. If space is an issue, it could be made into a list that you click on to make it expand.--Gloriamarie (talk) 01:21, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't think it's so much the length of time as affiliation. Notable people who have attended the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill are well covered in the entry List of University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill alumni. There's no reason to duplicate that list here just because they also lived in the town. I can see making exception for people who attended school here who stayed on after they attended.

Digitalican (talk) 16:05, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Another thing to consider is that you don't necessarily have to live in Chapel Hill to attend UNC. Granted, most undergrads do spend at least a year in the dorms, so they technically are Chapel Hill residents, but plenty of students and staff live in Carrboro or commute from neighboring counties. And given the absence of sources, it didn't make sense to include people simply because of their UNC affiliation. And yes, it ended up being redundant with the list Digitalican mentioned. And I agree with making an exception for people who stayed after attending. Mosmof (talk) 16:26, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

References

The article's references need work before this article should be considered for GA status. Some are just bare urls. Others are only short labels. They do not have sufficient detail to satisfy Wikipedia standards. Folklore1 (talk) 12:00, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

There have been some improvements, but still too many references at risk of link rot. Please do not remove the link rot tag until this condition has been corrected. Folklore1 (talk) 01:09, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

The sentence containing "with Newsweek currently ranking East Chapel" is not supported by the attached reference, which links to US News & World Report, not Newsweek. Folklore1 (talk) 13:03, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Chapel Hill, North Carolina/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Folklore1 (talk) 13:23, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

References

This article has reference citations that do not meet Wikipedia standards. Some are just bare url's or give such limited detail that link rot is a concern. See my previous notes about this condition on the Talk page. The references need to be cleaned up and brought up to date before this article is ready for a Good Article review. Folklore1 (talk) 13:31, 12 August 2011 (UTC)