Talk:Cetshwayo

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Cetshwayo article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

South Africa Top‑importance

	South Africa portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject South Africa, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of South Africa on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.South AfricaWikipedia:WikiProject South AfricaTemplate:WikiProject South AfricaSouth Africa articles
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Africa Top‑importance

	Africa portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Africa, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Africa on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AfricaWikipedia:WikiProject AfricaTemplate:WikiProject AfricaAfrica articles
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Biography: Royalty and Nobility

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by WikiProject Royalty and Nobility.

transcription

Is Cetshwayo standard Zulu orthography? I wanted to add the pronunciation -- plain dental click? kwami (talk) 22:32, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it's standard isiZulu, and yes, that's a dental click. Tebello TheWHAT!!?? 06:08, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Oh, second problem: is Zulu tsh ambiguous the way it is in Xhosa (/tsʰ/, /tʃ/, or /tʃʰ/), or can it only be /tʃ/? kwami (talk) 07:30, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A recent (early 1800s) sound shift in isiZulu converted all instances of /ch/ to /sh/, and thus, unlike isiXhosa, tsh is always pronounced /c'/ and never /ch/ (I'm too lazy to do this in IPA) in standard isiZulu (it's not inconceivable that some dialect somewhere still has remnants of /ch/). This sound shift was incomplete when isiNdebele branched off from isiZulu, thus you find many words where /ch/ in one corresponds to /sh/ in the other, and the same is true of isiXhosa (which did not branch off from isiZulu; cf. eg. the surnames Tshabalala/Shabalala, Tshabangu/Shabangu, etc, differing between isiXhosa/isiZulu). Cf. also the title of the acclaimed Sesotho novel Chaka.

IsiXhosa aspirated /tsh/, just like plain (ejective) /ts'/, would either come from the Khoisan or Sotho-Tswana languages (in Nguni /ts'/ is only found as the nasally permuted version of /s/, ie. in /nts'/, written ns in isiZulu and nts in isiXhosa).

Also remember that the w is not a semi-vowel, but is instead indicative of labialisation (see Sesotho phonology for further discussion).

Tebello TheWHAT!!?? 09:25, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, gave it a shot. Please correct if need be. Also, I didn't know what to do with tone-that should be there, of course. kwami (talk) 09:42, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I can't see the IPA properly on my phone (which is what I'm using now), but it looks problematic in a few ways.

Firstly, the name starts with a k followed by what appears to be a block on my phone. I'll assume the block is a click. In transcribing clicks, especially those of Kintu languages, the k' accompaniment is assumed and is thus usually not marked. If you do choose to explicitely show the accompaniment, then the standard is to show it after the click symbol (you place it before if it's part of a consonant cluster).

Do the apostrophes indicate ejective consonants? If so, what is that block after the mp (which is also ejective)? If they're stress then remember that main stress almost always falls on the penultimate syllable.

Regarding tone, I've always heard the name pronounced with a single high tone on the first syllable, but I've never heard the surname pronounced before.

If you could give me a list of the special symbols in your IPA and the sounds they represent below, then I could probably make the IPA transcription (although blind, so I need you to be sure of the symbols you give me).

Tebello TheWHAT!!?? 10:54, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, corrected the second ejective. (I'd had it aspirate.) [k!] and [!k] are equivalent; the problem with the latter is that the pipe gets confused with the brackets. Currently it's [k|étšw'ajo k'amp'ande]. kwami (talk) 17:44, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. Well, I would prefer it if the click did not explicitely specify the plain velar accompaniment, because that's not usually done outside of Khoisan.

The ka- in the surname means "son of", and would, like other possessive concords, be high toned.

Tebello TheWHAT!!?? 19:38, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Isigodlo

Isigodlo senkosi U Cetshwayo 105.12.2.208 (talk) 17:20, 28 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Cetshwayo 102.213.69.189 (talk) 06:07, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What are the names of King Cetshwayo kaMpende's wives in Zulu

What are the names of King Cetshwayo kaMpende's wives in Zulu? 41.144.64.195 (talk) 02:14, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]