Talk:Catalan State (1873)

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Spain

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Former countries

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Text and/or other creative content from this version of Catalan Republic was copied or moved into Catalan State (1873) with this edit on 23 October 2017. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

Flag

Raderich has replaced the Senyera with a flag of his own devising. According to the description on the image page, it is drawn from a verbal description in a Spanish-language newspaper, El Correo de Ultramar, in 1873. However, there is a very different interpratation at Flags of the World, also drawn from a verbal description (from Diario de Barcelona), which to me looks a good deal more authentic. Unfortunately, it is not a free image, so we can't use it. I propose to remove the made-up flag, but not to replace the Senyera. Instead I'll write about the description of the red and white flag in the article. Scolaire (talk) 15:52, 10 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I won't argue the removal and I thank you for adding the description. However I disagree that the "Flags of the World" proposal looks more authentic. In my opinion, it looks far less authentic, since it deliberately tries to bear some resemblance to the Estelada (which was invented more than 30 years later) with no proof for that whatsoever. The source mentions a triangle, and it doesn't say anywhere that the triangle was on the left side (or any side). Therefore, supposing just an ordinary triangle seems reasonable. Also, the source clearly says that the letters were surrounding the triangle, and that "Flags of the World" proposal just chose not to follow that. Last, there's no reason to paint the word "Cataluña" in yellow, which in my opinion was only made by the author to bear faked resemblance to the Senyera, which is indeed red-yellow. I suggest removing the link to the made up and unauthentic "Flags of the World" proposal.--Raderich (talk) 13:52, 12 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It's described as "an imaginative reconstruction", and the criticisms of the design are there to be seen on the FOTW page, so I see no reason to remove it. The Estelada, according to the Wikipedia article, was inspired by the Flag of Cuba (1849) and the Flag of Puerto Rico (1868). It seems very reasonable to me to suppose that the 1873 flag was also influenced by them. A triangle anywhere else on the banner has no precedent that I can think of. Scolaire (talk) 18:34, 12 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, you're just assuming that Catalan federalists in 1873 would have been inspired by the flag of Cuban Separatists (which at the time was not the "flag of Cuba"). There's no historical logic for that. At that time Spain was at war with the Cuban rebels and any historian will tell you that there was no sympathy at all in Catalonia for the Cuban separatists. In fact, Catalans were the ones most interested in the island and with most investions in it. The triangle had nothing to do with them. It is an allegory of the motto "Liberty, equality, fraternity", which was all over the place at the time of the Spanish First Republic. Please have a look here and note the date that flag had been flown (11 february 1873). Suggesting a connection with something that was invented decades later (the Estelada) is ridiculous and dishonest.--Raderich (talk) 00:03, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting! Is that from 1873? Can you link to the web page that has that image? And can we keep this collaborative and not use words like "dishonest"? Scolaire (talk) 09:34, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've found the source. Thank you for your explanation. I'll add another note in the article and remove the external link. Scolaire (talk) 10:09, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for adding the note and removing the link. You're right, and reasonable. I apologize for what I wrote. Kind regards.--Raderich (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:57, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]