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Featured articleCastell Coch is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
Main Page trophyThis article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on August 13, 2015, and will appear again on January 23, 2025.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
April 24, 2015Featured article candidatePromoted
July 23, 2016Peer reviewReviewed
Current status: Featured article

New images available

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Hello everyone, I just noticed that this category on Commons has 90 new images of Castell Coch. There are some interesting ones, with nice photos of the courtyard and parts of the interior. Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 12:31, 18 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The Butes...

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Andy, I've BRD and taken back to the last stable version until we have consensus for a change. There's no problem with talking about the Bute family or, indeed, the Butes in the plural; Cardiff Castle's own webpage, for example, talks about "The Butes 1776 - 1947 AD: The lordship was to be held by the Bute family, until 1947, when the Castle was given to the City of Cardiff. The Bute family brought power and prosperity to Cardiff...". Media articles like this note that "Known as the 'Forefathers of Cardiff,' the Bute family invested in the construction of the first docks in Cardiff in 1839. The Butes were responsible for the renovation of Cardiff Castle and not only gave the city’s residents Bute Park, but also Sophia Gardens, and Cathays Park, one of the most impressive civic centres in the world."; the BBC similarly is happy to talk about the Butes and the Bute family. Similarly academic books, like "South Glamorgan, a county history" by Stewart Williams. Hchc2009 (talk) 21:10, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The family name is Crichton-Stuart. Bute is a title - there is only one Bute at a time. Andy Dingley (talk) 21:14, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
That's not the typical convention in this case - possibly because they changed their family name half way along the dynasty. For a few more example, see Cambridge University Press's Modern Wales: A Concise History by Gareth Elwyn Jones here, or another example here, or John Davies' "Cardiff and the Marquesses of Bute" by University of Wales Press. It's definitely quite normal usage. Hchc2009 (talk) 21:28, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The Windsors and Mountbattens renamed themselves - but AFAIK, not the Crichton-Stuarts. A claim that they did will require more than a throwaway refernce in some tourist bumph. Of course there are references to "the Bute family", but that doesn't mean they're correct to do so (and there are of course far more correct ones, to the Crichton-Stuarts). Andy Dingley (talk) 22:25, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Referring to "the Butes" seems to go back a long way - the earliest example I've been able to find is late 18th century. As noted above, modern academics, the media etc. all use the phrase; the citation used in this article comes from the Welsh historian John Davies' work on the Marquesses of Bute, one of the main works on the family and published by the University of Wales in 1981; Davies talks about "the Butes" and "the Bute family" extensively (chapter one of his book is entitled "The Bute family", for example). For what it's worth, the Butes themselves also refer to themselves this way today - their official website, here, run on behalf of the 7th Marquess of Bute, is entitled "the Bute Family". Hchc2009 (talk) 12:16, 13 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It's reasonable to refer to "the Butes", especially over a long period when it can refer to several of the marquesses. However it's always a colloquialism; it's a reasonable and recognisable one, but it is not (as is used here) ever "the family name". Andy Dingley (talk) 12:27, 13 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

There's not much more I can point you to, Andy; you might not agree with historians, the current Marquess, etc. when they talk about "the Bute family", but it is what the sources use. You'll note that I did suggest changing the phrasing simply to "the Butes", but I was reverted. Hchc2009 (talk) 12:47, 13 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Film location

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Why is there not a more detailed film location setting, e.g. Dr. Who, Da Vinci's Demons. 2 shows filmed at Castell Coch in 2014 alone. Cltjames (talk) 12:38, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia articles are written in a Wikipedia:Summary style. They aren’t a repository for every single scrap of information that can be found. None of the main contributors to the article, including myself, thought it necessary to detail every TV show/miniseries/film which may have used the location. Nor did any of the reviewers when the article went through FAC. It’s basically a judgement call. An example of the alternative approach is Nannau, Wales where you’ve added a great deal of extraneous, arguably irrelevant, material. As an aside, the writing there is also poor. Much of the prose is ungrammatical, the tenses are all over the place, and quite a lot of it doesn’t make any sense. Obviously, if there is a consensus to add media details here, then they can go in. My own view is that they are largely irrelevant and don’t form an important part of the building’s history. KJP1 (talk) 13:07, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Castell Coch may be notable as a location for Doctor Who, but the converse may not necessarily be true. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:19, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
As for Nananu I'm fixing the writing for this weekend, and the story in it's entirety is relevant, but like a lot on the internet, only a story in it's entirety only shortened. Besides we're talking about Castell Coch; it's a tourist venue and deserves the recognition of a movie set in south Wales. Also if you really knew Castell Coch, then there would be a mention of bike trails, because the castle is famous for having a bike trail going from the castle to Cardiff bay, and more importantly the surrounding hills are full of easy downhill biking trails. These trails I knew well and I used to enjoy biking the trail in my youth, the trail is renowned, but more importantly the article should mention the downhill section, as it's been a popular spot for cyclists for generations. Perhaps the facts of the area should be better used in this article. Therefore I am propsing a biking section dedicated to the castle's layout in the surrounding hills, and at least a mention of the Robot of Sherwood Dr. Who episode, and Da Vinci if possible. Useful links - trailforks.com, moredirt.com castellcoch.comoutdoorcardiff.com Cltjames(talk) 11:16, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I know Castell Coch very well. I do not think a section on a 55-mile bike trail which happens to pass the castle would be remotely relevant. KJP1 (talk) 16:21, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Just look at the trailforks.com site, there are 27 dedicated tracks for downhill biking surrounding castell, it would be a shame to neglect this information as Castell Coch historically is a popular spot for cyclists. Cltjames(talk) 11:25, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'd agree those bike trails are not really relevant. Those trials might be relevant to Tongwynlais. That article already mentions the Taff Trail cycle route. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:29, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
One of the last mentions of the Bute family and Castell Coch is in the cycle path, sustrans.org.uk, a 6.5 mile track from Bute Park Arboretum to the castle. This information has been written in stone to be connected and spoken about after the Bute's departure from Cardiff. I don't see the counter argument sorry, there was something missing in not mentioning filming locations; and now I've found a precious piece of information which is critical to the castle's history. I remember the car park always being full of cars and bikers who use cars to go up the road to the top of the hill to drop off cyclists, they spend all day biking the downhill tracks and the area is famous for this. Without a mention it seems a critical piece of information regarding the use of the grounds is being neglected. Cltjames(talk) 11:35, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The cycle tracks are "critical to the castle's history"? Seriously?? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:39, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Not the history of the building of the castle, but it is now a talking point in regard to the day to day use of the castle ground, like focal points, the bike trail is famous.Cltjames(talk) 11:40, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Lots of “things” happen in the vicinity of the castle. That doesn’t necessarily make them relevant to the castle, let alone “precious and critical”. As Martin indicates, the article on the area, Tongwynlais, already mentions the trails, and could be expanded with the material you have. Alternatively, you could try and write an article specifically on the trails. But this article is about the castle. KJP1 (talk) 16:55, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Neither the Tongwynlais page or the Taff trail article mentions downhill biking. This is because the downhill sections are on Castell Coch' s grounds, and also the car park is the focal point for the cyclists who use the cafe on site for lunch. So, my on my point was, there is a gap in the article which could be filled with relevant information to the castle grounds and not Tongwynlais. Please, don't haste into this, think about it before making your any decisions. As for lots of things your right, apparently the same woods were a meeting point for homosexual activity, but that is irrelevant to day to day use of the castle grounds and unnecessary for the article. Cltjames (talk) 17:07, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"Neither the Tongwynlais page or the Taff trail article mentions downhill biking. This is because the downhill sections are on Castell Coch' s grounds..." No, I'd say it's just because no-one has bothered to add that material to one or both of those articles yet. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:49, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
We should should mention the use of the woods for biking and for walking in the Landscape – Site of Special Scientific Interest section, alongside the golf course which we already mention. We should also expand on the use of the castle in film and TV, but not so much as to be overweight. Currently we only say "The castle has also been used as a location for filming." I propose expanding this to:
Verbcatcher (talk) 23:15, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the update, I would also recommend an episode of Da Vinci's Demons, castellcoch.com Da Vinci demons filming, but with the Prisoner Of Zenda, there isn't a Wikipedia page about the 1984 tv series, nor authentic references for the castle, but IMDB supports the exterior scenes location guess, which is obvious when you watch the show. Cltjames (talk) 01:44, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
As you may know, we can't use IMDb as a source, even if the location is obvious in the series itself. I'm not going to object to Verbcatcher's proposal. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:28, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
If people consider that the mention of a few minor films and a couple of tv programmes is an improvement, then I can live with Verbcatcher’s suggestion. But I struggle to grasp some people’s priorities. I recall an earlier debate on whether the castle’s Grade I listing was notable, or merely a “mundane and bureaucratic attribute”. Now we are arguing for mention of a film so risible that it scores 30% on Rotten Tomatoes and is generally considered to have sunk the director’s career. Heigh ho. KJP1 (talk) 12:14, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
You can't blame William Burges! lol. I've got a bit lost as to whether we're discussing bike trails or TV shows. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:39, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest this discussion is now closed as I see no chance of a consensus for including more detailed media trivia being achieved.SovalValtos (talk) 12:34, 27 November 2021 (UTC) SovalValtos (talk) 21:22, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ermm, three of us just agreed to Verbcatcher’s suggestion? You might want to express a viewpoint? Martinevans123 (talk) 12:36, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Martinevans123 - stop mentioning the bloody bike trails, or we’ll end up having to include them too! KJP1 (talk) 12:54, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have made changes along the lines that I proposed. We may need to be vigilant in controlling the addition of films and TV shows – I selected a few with reliable sources that give a range of dates and genres. Verbcatcher (talk) 22:38, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, great, shame it's only a line. Cltjames (talk) 14:10, 24 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Consensus rules? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:11, 24 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Restoration

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Needs an update on the damp, [4][5]. KJP1 (talk) 21:28, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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