Talk:Carousel (Marcia Griffiths album)

Edit disagreement over writing origin

Please continue the discussion in Talk:Electric Boogie#Written in 1976?, where the subject of the discussion belongs. --Altenmann >talk 23:15, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, disagree with the move, as I've only contributed to the Carousel (Marcia Griffiths album) article. There are already two cited sources in that article that refer to 1976, and the opposing editor made all their initial edits based on original research and opinion. The sources that claim 1976 are as follows:

Warren, Emma (2023). Dance Your Way Home: A Journey Through the Dancefloor. Faber & Faber. ISBN 978-0-571-36605-7.

Green, Micha (19 June 2021). "A little slide before we go". Afro-American Red Star

Roy, Sanjoy How the Electric Slide became the Black Lives Matter protest dance The Guardian Jun 11, 2020

Comengo, Carol Golden moments: Coastline dancers reunite for oldies, friendship at Vera's in Cherry Hill Courier Post 26 Oct 2018 SC.1.

Bunny Wailer's estate celebrates Supreme Court ruling, Amazon deal The Gleaner July 23, 2024

I-Threes to reunite at Westchester Reggae Festival Caribbean Life July 28, 2019

Dance songs Republican-American January 25, 2018 D3

Scene & Heard Times Union December 16, 2016 F3

Reggae Vibe Magazine

Aside from the Spanish source--for which I assumed good faith--the only RS (as in, a reliable publisher) has been added by you, and is an interview... Caro7200 (talk) 23:34, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I have to ignore your disagreement. We cannot have different content in Carousel (Marcia Griffiths album) and Electric Boogie (WP:CFORK) and therefore the discussion belongs to the latter page, because it is the main one for the issue. --Altenmann >talk 00:44, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Altenmann, you can get as picky as you want, but you kind of need to address the reliability of this published source before you start edit warring. It's pretty clear: 1976. Perhaps you are familiar with Faber & Faber, a longterm mainstream publisher of books. Drmies (talk) 01:06, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The source you are using is contradictory because it states that the song was inspired by Eddie Grant's "Electric Avenue," but that song is from 1982. Given this contradiction, it is impossible that it was written in 1976. HumbleWise (talk) 02:21, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The singer of this song clarifies that "Electric Boogie" was written and recorded spontaneously in 1982. This statement comes from a primary source. HumbleWise (talk) 21:02, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Specialized reggae publications confirm that "Electric Boogie" is from 1982. HumbleWise (talk) 21:17, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Her 1982 No. 1 hit, Electric Boogie, became a landmark recording when it inspired its own dance craze - The Electric Slide - some six years later. Created by Bunny Wailer from the inspiration of a rhythm box Marcia bought in Canada, it was a big hit in several countries". HumbleWise (talk) 21:35, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here you can read and also listen to Marcia Griffiths herself explaining that she and Bunny Wailer spontaneously composed the song in 1982. HumbleWise (talk) 21:42, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"The 68-year-old, who once sang backup vocals for Bob Marley, explains the actual story behind the OG "Electric Boogie." She purchased a music box with a meager amount of money she made while performing in Toronto, and then brought the trinket home to Jamaica to show Bunny Wailer. Griffiths says he wrote the song in less than 24 hours, and that "I bought that little box and out of it came a beautiful hit song that inspired Jamaicans," and that "If it was about a vibrator, that would've never happened." HumbleWise (talk) 21:50, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"At no time have I ever lent credence to a rumor that the song was inspired by anything other than Eddie Grant’s Electric Avenue [1982]. To state otherwise is a falsehood and offends my legacy, the legacy of the singer Marcia Griffiths, and tarnishes the reputation of a song beloved by millions of fans the world over." -Bunny Wailer. HumbleWise (talk) 21:57, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"He [Bunny Wailer] taught me the song and he was telling me that he got the idea from Eddy Grant’s “Electric Avenue.” [1982] He was honest enough to say that. I’m telling you about the original “Electric Boogie.” -Marcia Griffiths. HumbleWise (talk) 23:28, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[https://www.bkmag.com/2023/07/10/a-conversation-with-reggae-legend-marcia-griffiths/ The singer clarifies the confusion surrounding this song:

-Interviewer: I did mention “Electric Boogie.” You’ve mentioned Bunny Wailer in 1983. I’m not telling you anything you don’t know. You put out a version of Bunny Wailer’s “Electric Boogie.” -Griffiths: No, no, no, no. Can I just give a correction?

-Interviewer: Please correct! -Griffiths: I did not put out a version of Bunny’s “Electric Boogie.” The original “Electric Boogie” was written by Bunny, sung by me...] HumbleWise (talk) 00:06, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[https://books.google.co.cr/books?id=2QsvAAAAIBAJ&pg=PA94&dq=marcia+griffiths+toronto+airport+i+threes&article_id=2635,2229665&hl=es-419&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiI_5O0_ISIAxXHRzABHcG4HIMQ6AF6BAgFEAM#v=onepage&q=marcia%20griffiths%20toronto%20airport%20i%20threes&f=false

Marcia Griffiths' account is credible, as it can be verified that she indeed performed in Toronto in April 1982.] HumbleWise (talk) 01:54, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The official copyright registration of "Electric Boogie" in the US Copyright Office states that the song was created by Neville Livingston (Bunny Wailer) in 1983, with a publication date in the U.S. on July 29, 1983 (PA0000195000). Marcia Griffiths is the original performer of the song, and Solomonic Music Ltd. (Bunny Wailer's record label) is the copyright claimant. As previously mentioned, there is no physical or documented evidence of a recording prior to 1976, which reinforces that the officially recognized version was recorded in late 1982 and officially released in 1983. HumbleWise (talk) 02:36, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A fact that confirms the 1980 date on the "Electric Boogie" single with series SOL-0014 is a mislabeling and not a copyright registration is that PRS (Performing Right Society), based in the UK, indicates that the song was first registered in its archives on December 23, 1983. This registration date is 11 days after the U.S. copyright registration date of December 12, 1983. This definitively reinforces that there is no song registered in 1980 with the title "Electric Boogie" by Bunny Wailer.

Key PRS Details:

•Registered Title: Electric Boogie

•MCPS Claims: 100.00%

•Tunecode: 018481EN

•ISWC: T-011.283.807-9, T-902.810.162-4ICE

•Work Key: 1848042Work •Registered: December 23, 1983

•Work Amended: August 15, 2024

•Work Status: All shares and agreements have been assigned to interested parties

•Work Fully Documented

•Share Status: Work is within copyright period

•Duration: 4m 00s

Creators:

•Composer/Author: Neville O Riley Livingston [real name of Bunny Wailer]

•Membership No. (CAE/IPI): 75898219

Publishers:

Publisher: Kobalt Music Publishing Ltd

•Membership No. (CAE/IPI): 832688803

•Performing Share Society: PRS

•Mechanical Share Society: MCPS

-Source: PRS Archives. HumbleWise (talk) 13:21, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[https://copyright.gov/rulings-filings/review-board/docs/The-Electric-Slide.pdf

As I mentioned earlier, you are relying solely on clearly questionable bibliographic references, like this one from Faber & Faber that cites Ric L. Silver, without cross-checking them against what the original authors of the song and official records say.

Let's now talk about Ric L. Silver. All this confusion regarding the existence of a supposed 1976 demo arises from Ric L. Silver's legal battles in his attempt to register a dance routine called The Electric Slide under his name, which drew media attention in 2007. Silver submitted a document to the US Copyright Office arguing that he created his choreography based on a demo by Marcia Griffiths titled 'Electric Boogie' from 1976. It is important to note that he mentions Marcia Griffiths, not Bunny Wailer, which clarifies that there is no earlier version recorded by Bunny Wailer (please see the footnote on pages 5 and 6 of the attached document from the US Copyright Office).

In this same document, the US Copyright Office informed Silver that the song was created in 1983 according to their records, not in 1976. However, the office accepted Silver's claim because it did not affect the application he was making. Nonetheless, Silver never provided any proof or evidence that such a demo existed. In fact, in another document from the US Copyright Office (Correspondence ID: 1-3FCP8DF), the office noted that the only evidence Silver presented was a pamphlet with no publication date. All of Ric L. Silver's requests to register the dance routine were consistently rejected by that office.

The most important point to highlight is that Ric L. Silver is not referring to a song by Bunny Wailer but rather to the same song by Marcia Griffiths, incorrectly stating it is from 1976. Clarifying this point and considering official records and statements from both Marcia Griffiths and Bunny Wailer, we can conclude that if Ric L. Silver is referring to Marcia Griffiths' version, it was created in late 1982 and there is no Bunny Wailer version from 1976. Additionally, both Bunny Wailer and Marcia Griffiths have stated that Wailer was inspired to write the song 'Electric Boogie' by 'Electric Avenue' from Eddy Grant's album 'Killer on the Rampage', released in 1982.

Given that the Faber & Faber citation claims the song was inspired by Eddie Grant's 'Electric Avenue' from 1982 yet erroneously dates it to 1976, this discrepancy raises serious concerns about the reliability of the source. Based on the evidence I have presented, it is very likely that Silver received this recording in late 1982 or early 1983, before the official release. This is supported by the fact that the first edition of the song was released with no serial number or date, which might have led to confusion that it was a demo, but in reality, it was the release by Solomonic (Bunny Wailer's record label).

This discrepancy underscores the importance of relying on verified sources and official records rather than unverified bibliographic references.

Finally, it is essential to approach such matters with respect and an open mind. Being overly dismissive or arbitrary in deleting contributions or blocking users without a thorough understanding of the issue can undermine constructive dialogue and collaborative efforts. ---] HumbleWise (talk) 05:09, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As part of my efforts to clarify this confusion, I will now cite Jamaican bassist Glen Browne, whom Marcia Griffiths mentions in multiple interviews as the creator of the bass line for "Electric Boogie." According to Browne, the song was created exclusively for Marcia Griffiths in 1982 by Bunny Wailer, and he emphasizes that Griffiths’ version is the first and only original recording of the song, clarifying that no earlier recordings exist. This statement aligns with what both Griffiths and Wailer have said, dismissing any unfounded rumors about earlier versions before 1982. Browne's video thus becomes another valuable source for clarifying the history of "Electric Boogie." Below, I transcribe his words:

"Greetings, I'm Jamaican bassist Glen Browne, and today I'm going to show you how I played the original version of Marcia Griffiths' 'Electric Boogie.' You know that song? The one you do all the electric slide to? Yeah. This song was recorded around 1982, if I'm not mistaken, and this is the original version, the version that came before Bunny Wailer's version—it actually preceded Bunny Wailer's version. And then after that, you have the new version, which most people know, done around 1989, and you're still dancing to it. I hope you can do the electric slide. So I'm going to show you how I slide around on the instrument, on the bass, to give you that groove, OK? (...)

So here we go now with the original version of 'Electric Boogie,' the very first version. I must share this with you: when I went to record this song, there was only the keyboard player in the studio and Bunny Wailer. Marcia Griffiths was there, but I think she left before I actually put the bassline on. The song was written by Bunny Wailer, so he could sing the song for me and guide me through it. But it was only keyboards and a drum track. Sometimes you have to work like that. Since it’s an 8-bar groove, you can basically get through it. Not too many changes, but you must get the groove right. Even the new version, although they kind of reproduced what was done originally, got the groove right. That's the most important thing, right? If you can't feel the groove, you can't make a move. So here we go." (Browne, 2020, September 5)
---
- - Reference:**
Browne, G. (2020, September 5). *Electric Boogie (Marcia Griffiths) - Reggae Bassline Tutorial* [Video]. Glen Reggae Basslines. YouTube. HumbleWise (talk) 21:30, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please continue the discussion in Talk:Electric Boogie#Written in 1976?, where the subject of the disagreement belongs. --Altenmann >talk 23:15, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RFC

Please see Talk:Electric_Boogie#RFC_for_creation_date --Altenmann >talk 22:55, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Timeline and Verification of 'Electric Boogie': A comprensive Review.

VERSION ONE: VERIFIED FACTS

1. MUSICAL EXPLORATION: Bunny Wailer began exploring a new musical sound with the album "Hook Line & Sinker", recorded between January and March 1982, moving away from reggae to explore funk and disco.

2. MARCIA GRIFFITHS’ PERFORMANCE: Marcia Griffiths performed in Toronto in April 1982 with the I-Threes. This coincides with her account of having bought a rhythm box in Toronto with the payment she received.

3. SONG CREATION: Marcia Griffiths states that "Electric Boogie" came about spontaneously between her and Wailer while experimenting with the sounds of the rhythm box purchased in April 1982. In less than 24 hours, Wailer wrote the song and returned the next day with it.

4. INSPIRATION: Bunny Wailer stated that he was inspired by Eddy Grant’s "Electric Avenue" (which appeared on the 1982 album "Killer on the Rampage") to create "Electric Boogie."

5. RELEASE: In 1982, the song was released on a record without a date, serial number, or matrix number under Wailer’s label, Solomonic, leading some people to mistakenly believe it was a demo.

6. CHART SUCCESS: On December 25, 1982, Marcia performed the song live for the first time at the Youth Consciousness Reggae Festival organized by Bunny Wailer. In the early months of 1983, the song reached the top charts in Jamaica. In the UK, the pre-release is dated January 15, 1983.

7. RE-RELEASE: In 1983, Chris Blackwell of Island Records became interested in the song and released a reissued and remixed version under the Mango sublabel and Island Records. Bunny Wailer registered the song with the US Copyright Office on December 12, 1983, indicating that the year of creation was 1983. On December 23 of that same year, the song was registered with the UK’s Performing Right Society (PRS).

8. STATEMENTS BY GRIFFITHS, WAILER, FORBES AND BROWNE: Glen Browne, who composed the bassline, states that the song was created in 1982 and that there is no earlier version. Griffiths maintains the same version, and Wailer, who wrote it inspired by a 1982 song ("Electric Avenue"), never mentioned an earlier version. Copeland Forbes, world tour manager and reggae historian, has also debunked the creation or existence of a version prior to 1982.

---

VERSION TWO: UNVERIFIED FACTS

1. RICHARD "RIC" L. SILVER'S COPYRIGHT REGISTRATION: In 2004 and 2006, Richard "Ric" L. Silver registered a motion picture and a text with the US Copyright Office under registration numbers PA0001274833 and TX0007322278 respectively. The motion picture is described as a 1/2 inch videocassette titled "The Electric Slide". The text states that they are instructions for "The Electric", a Four Wall Dance Fugue.

2. RICHARD "RIC" L. SILVER'S CLAIM: In 2007, Richard "Ric" L. Silver attracted media attention by attempting to remove from the internet any video that incorrectly interpreted the choreography of the "Electric Slide," claiming ownership of the copyright. Silver asserted that he had created the "Electric Slide" dance based on a demo of "Electric Boogie" that he received in 1976. Although the US Copyright Office consistently denied his requests to register his dance as a choreographic work, his account was considered accurate only for the procedure he requested. However, the US Copyright Office clarified that "Electric Boogie" was created in 1983 according to official records. Since Silver's media exposure in 2007, it has been incorrectly repeated that "Electric Boogie" was released by Wailer in 1976 and that the 1982 version is a cover.

3. DENIAL BY MARCIA GRIFFITHS: Marcia Griffiths has recently denied in the media the existence of a version of the song prior to 1982, stating that both local and international media have repeated this information incorrectly. This is supported by the fact that there is no physical evidence, records, or testimonies that support Silver's version of a 1976 demo.

4. BUNNY WAILER'S MUSICAL STYLE IN 1976: In 1976, Bunny Wailer was deeply immersed in his Rastafari faith and roots reggae, and his transition to styles like pop funk occurred in the early 80s, as reflected in his album "Hook Line & Sinker". Therefore, it is unlikely, if not impossible, that he composed a pop funk song like "Electric Boogie" in 1976.

---

PERSONAL CONCLUSION

Based on the verified facts and available evidence, it is clear that "Electric Boogie" was created and released in 1982, with the official records and testimonies supporting this timeline. The claims of a 1976 version, as proposed by some individuals, do not hold up against the documented history and statements from those involved. The discrepancies in the accounts and the lack of substantial evidence for the earlier version suggest that these claims are based on misunderstandings or misinformation. Thus, the established narrative of "Electric Boogie" originating in 1982 remains the most credible and supported by the facts. Prior to 2004, there is no citation or reference to a 1976 demo. HumbleWise (talk) 16:56, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]