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154.47.19.132, you reverted me with summary "partial revert, you undid edits of North Korea", yet you have reverted various changes which have nothing to do with North Korea, including my change to the map legend text I discussed above. Could you please explain and justify your changes in detail? I think they'd be much better received if (1) you keep each edit small and on only one part of the article (2) for each edit you write an edit summary explaining the reasoning behind it. Also, although you aren't by the rules strictly speaking required to do so, people would appreciate it if you made an account and edited with that, and again you might find your edits better received if you did that. I'm going to revert you. Please don't just undo my revert without at least posting some explanation of your reasoning here. SomethingForDeletion (talk) 01:14, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The edits for North Korea are as followed:
North Korea, death penalty listed as specified with a source for death penalty sentences announced for homosexual activity as offenses of morality laws.
Then I changed the wording of the legend from "Consensual adult same-sex acts criminalized, but unclear whether death is a legal punishment" to "Consensual adult same-sex acts are a possibility of a death penalty" as it seems more direct and essentially says a similar message but avoids speculating or WP:NOTSCANDAL.
Then I removed the statement "These sentences have invariably been overturned" as the source does not mention or support that statement and that addition is best speculation, and at worse words made up from thin air.
Then I changed " While adherence of the country's legal system to sharia allows for capital punishment for same-sex sexual activity— as with other sex acts by married persons outside marriage under zina provisions —there are no known instances of imposition of the death penalty" to "Adherence of the country's legal system to sharia allows for capital punishment for same-sex sexual activity under zina provisions; enforcement is unknown" as it not only removes off topic discussion about adultery which is off-topic, but also allows for it to be written with the possibility of unreported executions as that can't be ruled out in the report.
Finally in the note for the Amnesty report, I added that this interpretation that seems to be added to the summary twice is just that: an interpretation, and the application of anti-gay laws in the UAE are not confirmed to be only used for rape. Merely, this is Amnesty's opinion not law.154.47.19.132 (talk) 01:58, 14 August 2023 (UTC) Striking block-evasion; layout clarified. 13:10, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Can you please break all those edits up so we can discuss them individually? I can say specifically with respect to Then I changed the wording of the legend from "Consensual adult same-sex acts criminalized, but unclear whether death is a legal punishment" to "Consensual adult same-sex acts are a possibility of a death penalty" as it seems more direct and essentially says a similar message but avoids speculating or WP:NOTSCANDAL – it isn't "essentially says a similar message", it changes it from an accurate representation of what the source says to a misrepresentation of what the source says, and there is no speculation involved in that. (And you completely ignored my request to discuss the map legend in the Talk page section above before reverting it again–why?). As to all your other edits, I don't have the time to address all of them right now, but several of them I have similar doubts about whether they are accurate representations of what the cited sources are saying, or whether you are even basing them on cited sources at all. SomethingForDeletion (talk) 02:04, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If you have objections, explain in detail your reasoning. Do not just revert without explaining here first — Preceding unsigned comment added by Itssmeagain (talk • contribs) 07:43, 14 August 2023 (UTC) Striking block-evading sock. 13:10, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
[1] as well as [2] say is it a punishment, while this source from Amnesty International[1] contradicts itself and claims it is debated on the meaning of the law but it also says death can be applied. We should rule out Amnesty if this voice is in the minority that says it can be debated when there are plenty of sources that do not debate its meaning or do not mention its meaning in its conclusion. This source from Amnesty overreaches to try to find a conclusion that is not there and the few other sources that may exist out there that "agree" with the conclusive punishment being debatable only source it directly or indirectly, essentially parroting this source.Pieinthesky1 (talk) 15:00, 8 June 2024 (UTC) Pieinthesky1 (talk) 15:00, 8 June 2024 (UTC), a block-evading sock of Jacobkennedy (SPI page), long-term abuser of this, and other LGBT-related, pages (as also seen in the section above, "IP edits", by 154.47.19.132 and Itssmeagain). [Striking sock 10:00, 9 June 2024 (UTC)][reply]
References
^Amnesty International, ed. (4 July 2008). "Appendix 1: The Application of the Death Penalty for Consensual Same-sex Sexual Relations". Love, hate and the law: decriminalizing homosexuality (Report). pp. 46–49. NOTE ON THE UNITED ARAB EMIRATES:"The United Arab Emirates (UAE) does not carry the death penalty for same-sex consensual sexual relations."The UAE is a federal system... based in Abu Dhabi. Article 354 of the Penal Code 'Union law No. 3 of 1987' (Qanoun al-'Uqoubat) provides for the death penalty in a context of force, or coercion, whereby a male or female forces another female or a male coerces another male to take part in the sexual act."
The article puts Iran in the "Complete legal certainty" category not the "Legality unclear" category. So you are complaining that the article is saying something it doesn't actually say. SomethingForDeletion (talk) 02:00, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The extrajudicial executions section and the part referencing them in the leading section feel very misleading in their current state (WP:WEIGHT). Although extrajudicial killings of gay people are frequently occurring around the world, in the lead section the specific examples given are all of Muslim countries, portraying an inaccurate picture of extrajudicial homophobic violence. The sole exception is the United States, which I added a few months ago to try to add some variety and offset the bias without making the list unreasonably long.
In the actual Extrajudicial Executions section itself, this exclusive focus on Muslim nations and actors is compounded. The section is extremely confusing, and the juxtaposition of it with the Hate Crimes section only furthers this confusion - what makes a homophobic murder in Malaysia an extrajudicial execution, but a homophobic murder in Australia a hate crime? The fact that the extrajudicial killings section has an exclusively Muslim focus, while the hate crimes section has an exclusively Western focus, when each are discussing the same phenomenon, is an irresponsible and biased framing.
In general, I feel this page needs a complete reworking to be up to Wikipedia standards. I am personally unsure to what extent they belong on this article in the first place, but if we feel hate crimes/extrajudicial executions are indeed within the scope of the article, I feel they should be consolidated into one category, and the list in the leading section should be changed to reflect a variety of cultures and regions without sacrificing its brevity. I'm not married to these potential changes though and am up for suggestions, but I felt like after listing a bunch of issues I should at least offer a potential way for us to improve it. My main goal is to identify and outline these problems so we can discuss them and what it will look like to address them.
I also thing a discussion needs to be had about the unclear definition/criteria for the extrajudicial executions section, but I will make a separate talk topic for that. Buglover100000 (talk) 21:01, 5 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
