Talk:Cal Poly San Luis Obispo College of Engineering

Untitled

I oppose the adding of "(San Luis Obispo)" to the article. The hatnote is more than sufficient to handle any potential confusion, and adding "(San Luis Obispo)" as part of the article name is overboard.

From Wikipedia:Disambiguation: "Disambiguation in Wikipedia is the process of resolving conflicts in Wikipedia article titles that occur when a single term can be associated with more than one topic, making that term likely to be the natural title for more than one article. In other words, disambiguations are paths leading to different articles which could, in principle, have the same title." Let's think about it this way, if there was a University of California College of Engineering article, where would it redirect? Would it chauvinistically redirect to University of California, Berkeley College of Engineering? I beg to differ. There are nine colleges of engineering in California associated with that name. In the Los Angeles Metropolitan Area, Orange County and the Inland Empire the term "Cal Poly College of Engineering" is associated with the college of engineering at Cal Poly Pomona. Officially or unofficially, people who are local to Cal Poly Pomona refer to the university as "Cal Poly". I'm sorry, but unless you can come up with a way to change their minds, which would obliterate room for confusion, there must be a disambiguation page.

--TheMexicanGentleman (talk) 01:03, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Your analogy is misplaced. UC Berkeley's official name is "University of California, Berkeley." Therefore, you are correct that something to the effect of "University of California College of Engineering" would need a disambiguation page. This is not the case here. "Cal Poly" is an official name of California Polytechnic State University, where as "Cal Poly Pomona" is an official name of California State Polytechnic University, Pomona. Therefore, it is not only appropriate to list this article as "Cal Poly College of Engineering," but it is the only realistic way to describe it. As to your claim that there "must" be a disambiguation page, you again are incorrect. Since "Cal Poly" explicitly refers to California Polytechnic State University, it is the primary topic for the term. In addition, "Cal Poly Pomona" is the only other potential misuse of the term. According to Wikipedia policy, "[i]f only a primary topic and one other topic require disambiguation, then disambiguation links are sufficient, and a disambiguation page is unnecessary." The hatnote is more than enough to relieve any potential confusion. Completely changing the name of the article--adding a city name that is not even part of the university's name--is a drastic change that is wholly unwarranted. On a side note--to address your statement regarding what people in southern CA call it--you are wrong yet again. I live in Ontario, and regulary hear CPP referred to as "Cal Poly Pomona." I think it would be intellectually dishonest to refer to it as anything else.

The California Polytechnic State University could say they officially want to be referred to as the Cal Poly Institute of Technology as far as everyone is concerned; legally, the "Cal Poly" name belongs to the California State University (Cal State name ownership), and not to Cal Poly at San Luis Obispo or Cal Poly Pomona. There is plenty of room for confusion over the "Cal Poly College of Engineering" article name. A Google search on the term has its top two results redirecting you to the College of Engineering at the California State University campus in San Luis Obispo and to the College of Engineering at the California State University campus in Pomona. Yes, Cal Poly at San Luis Obispo has recently tried to bully everyone into believing they are "the real Cal Poly" like they did to one of their locals. But if you read the article carefully you will read "the Board of Trustees of the Cal State system took the shop to court three years ago", it was the board of trustees of the Cal State system and NOT the California Polytechnic State University who took the store owner to court. In any event, here are a few sample where Cal Poly Pomona is addressed as Cal Poly: 1, 2, 3, 4, look at the picture of Foothill Transit bus 486. I think the ones truly dishonest are those who use tactics which take a cultural imperialistic approach.

--TheMexicanGentleman (talk) 18:21, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

I think we can reach a compromise here. I like what you did with the disambig page--let's keep it. If we could remove the (San Luis Obispo) label as part of the Cal Poly College of Engineering name, then we would be set. This would mirror how we set up the disambig page for "Cal Poly." Furthermore, the line "a college of engineering in the city of San Luis Obispo" and "a college of engineering in the city of Pomona" accurately label the locus of each university in CA. By the way, do you want to write a section regarding the history of the two engineering schools? It's my understanding that SLO and Pomona are both working on a Stem Cell Project at the moment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.57.143.208 (talk) 08:34, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

The (San Luis Obispo) part of the article's name is by no means implying that it is part of the actual name of the college. For example there are two films that go by the name Lolita based on the novel of the same title written by Vladimir Nabokov, the first one goes by the article name Lolita (1962 film) whereas the other is titled Lolita (1997 film) and by no means is the information in the parenthesis part of the name; this naming convention comes form the Wikipedia:Manual of Style (disambiguation pages). Personally, I just oppose the way Cal Poly at San Luis Obispo encourages efforts to distance itself from the California State University, by taking elitist approaches such as monopolizing and encouraging the use of the name "Cal Poly". The same could be said for Cal Poly Pomona to a certain extent. However, Cal Poly Pomona maintains its URL as csupomona.edu whereas Cal Poly at San Luis Obispo uses calpoly.edu. This weak sense of identity among some campuses (including Cal Maritime at Vallejo) has done nothing but contributed to increase the lack of prestige Cal State campuses are attributed. Would Cal Poly at San Luis Obispo be perceived as such an elite institution if it were to go by the name "CSU San Luis Obispo" as it should be? Perhaps, but at least the whole CSU would benefit from it don't you think? What's wrong with the name San Luis Obispo anyways? Isn't a prestigious college of engineering part of the CSU located there? It's a beautiful name with rich history.

--TheMexicanGentleman (talk) 19:23, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Frankly, I agree with you about Cal Poly trying to distance itself from CSU. I think the fact that the CSU's aren't consistent in their naming has hurt the CSU identity as a whole (I would prefer to just state that I attended "The California State University." I used to live in Michigan, and that's how people referred to the University of Michigan, regardless of the campus). Don't you think we would be better off if CSU would be consistent like UC? I think we should keep your sentence in the disambig page regarding where the colleges are, and just remove the "(San Luis Obispo)" part of the title. I completely agree with you that it's not implying it's part of the name: I think it's just better to use the hatnote and the sentence. We could keep it consistent with the "Cal Poly" disambig page. Since we have this disambig page for "Cal Poly College of Engineering," both CPP and CPSLO searchers can find what they are looking for. By the way, I was taking a look at the CPP page's discussion about the history of the two campuses. Do you want to add that to the SLO article as well? I imagine they should be identical in the sense that they were the same school until...what, I think the 70's, right? Are we allowed to take portions of one and put it in the other? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.202.205.242 (talk) 09:29, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

I made the change to a univeristy recognized "Cal Poly at San Luis Obispo College of Engineering". It's less formal, but it's officially recognized and makes a clear distinction between the colleges of engineering in both San Luis Obispo and Pomona.

--TheMexicanGentleman (talk) 02:43, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

I find the "Cal Poly at" extremely awkward; "Cal Poly San Luis Obispo" reads much better and is more in line with real-world use. Thus, I'm going to move the page to "Cal Poly San Luis Obispo College of Engineering". --mcpusc (talk) 15:31, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move (non-admin closure) Cnilep (talk) 18:08, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

---

Cal Poly San Luis Obispo College of Engineering → Cal Poly College of Engineering (San Luis Obispo) — The name of the College of Engineering is "Cal Poly College of Engineering." See ceng.calpoly.edu. The university notes its official name as "Cal Poly" and "California Polytechnic State University." See http://warc.calpoly.edu/universityid/univnameuse.html. The usage of "Cal Poly San Luis Obispo" is explicitly rejected. Id. In addition to offical name usage, it is the name that is commonly used: the College of Engineering itself uses it (see again, ceng.calpoly.edu); calpoly.edu, calpoly.com, calpoly.net, calpoly.org are all owned by Cal Poly and associated with Cal Poly servers; Cal Poly does not use "San Luis Obispo" in its athletic teams (see http://gopoly.com/), facebook uses "Cal Poly" to denote the university, etc. This is in contrast to "Cal Poly Pomona," which explicitly rejects usage of "Cal Poly" without "Pomona" (see http://www.csupomona.edu/~publicaffairs/graphics/nomenclature.shtml); does not use "calpoly" in its web address (see csupomona.edu), is not the original Cal Poly, and does not label its engineering college without the word "Pomona." Furthermore, the "Cal Poly College of Engineering" artile used to directly go what is now the "Cal Poly San Luis Obispo College of Engineering" article. It was only recently changed, and the change was erroneous. In an effort to compromise, I suggest moving this page to "Cal Poly College of Engineering (San Luis Obispo)." Sawagner201 (talk) 00:28, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Oppose The California Polytechnic State University (Cal Poly San Luis Obispo) has constantly tried to create this social construct called “Cal Poly” by pushing the agenda that they are the so-called “real”, “original”, or “only” Cal Poly as if it implied a certain unaffiliation from the California State University (CSU) system and complete disregard for the history of its 71 year-old sister university called Cal Poly Pomona. Several third parties refer to the California Polytechnic State University as Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, including the the CSU system itself in numerous occasions (1, 2, 3, 4, and thousands more). Other parties such as the Los Angeles Times also do so repeatedly. The bottom line is that if we allow to change the article’s title to “Cal Poly College of Engineering (San Luis Obispo)” we are merely allowing the intrusion of corporate-style naming conventions that are out of touch with common usage and reality. To gauge the level of senselessness some Cal Poly San Luis Obispo officials have had in the past, in 1993, they sued the mom-and-pop shop called Bello’s Sporting Goods because they wanted to exclusively profit from the sales of merchandise with the trademark Cal Poly. Tom Bello had been a long friend of the university up until the point where Warren J. Baker took over the presidency at Cal Poly San Luis Obispo and has been pushing such a selfish agenda. Enabling this irresponsible and just elitist ways are a disregard of the history of both campuses (look at the CP hill at Pomona in 1965). Cal Poly Pomona and Cal Poly San Luis Obispo are both Cal Poly and we cooperate in something called Cal Poly Universities Rose Float. Both universities should show respect and acknowledgment of the other, that's just the main premise. Thank you.--Marco Guzman, Jr (talk) 02:58, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Oppose Let's just stick with one fucking name already! Cal Poly San Luis Obispo is just fucking fine and dandy! Enough already! --mcpusc (talk) 05:08, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

As Marco Guzman post makes clear, his position is not based in fact, but rather his frustration with the fact that "Cal Poly" refers to California Polytechnic State University. Wikipedia is not a place to rename institutions: "Cal Poly" is both the official and commonly used name. Addressing Mcpusc's comment, yes, let's stick with one name: "Cal Poly College of Engineering." That name used to actually be the name of this article until a Pomona editor recently changed it. 71.202.205.242 (talk) 05:19, 6 March 2010 (UTC)sawagner201

Support Cal Poly is the commonly-used name of the school in San Luis Obispo, with the latter city name being a parenthetical location for the name of the school, used to distinguish it from Cal Poly Pomona. The proposed naming does not run any risk of confusion with the Pomona school. I say this having never attended either school nor edited any article relevant to this discussion. -- Scray (talk) 00:15, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Comment: How about we drop this Cal Poly crap already and title the college's article as California Polytechnic State University College of Engineering just like UC Berkeley does to its college of engineering University of California, Berkeley College of Engineering?--Marco Guzman, Jr (talk) 19:30, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Ok. Will you make the change to both engineering articles? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.202.205.242 (talk) 22:29, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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