Talk:Cabinet of Victoria

Australia: Victoria / Politics Mid‑importance

	Australia portal Cabinet of Victoria is within the scope of WikiProject Australia, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Australia and Australia-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page.AustraliaWikipedia:WikiProject AustraliaTemplate:WikiProject AustraliaAustralia articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Victoria (assessed as High-importance).
	This article is supported by WikiProject Australian politics (assessed as Mid-importance).
	Need help improving this article? Ask a Librarian^{What's this?} at the National Library of Australia, or the State Library of Victoria.
	The Wikimedia Australia chapter can be contacted via email to helpwikimedia.org.au for non-editorial assistance.

Politics Low‑importance

	Politics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Cabinet/Executive Council page move and membership

I'm concerned about the name change from Cabinet of Victoria to Executive Council of Victoria. The original move edit says this is to bring it in line with other Australian states, but this doesn't seem to be the case. A quick look around shows the following:

NSW: Executive Council of New South Wales
Queensland: Cabinet of Queensland and Executive Council of Queensland as separate articles
South Australia: Cabinet of South Australia
Tasmania: No article (Tasmanian Government)
WA: Executive Council of Western Australia and Cabinet of Western Australia (redirect to List of Western Australian ministries)
Australia: Cabinet of Australia and Federal Executive Council (Australia)

which shows no particular naming consistency. In all states (but not federal government), membership of both bodies consists of all ministers.

Given that "cabinet" is the term used in general conversation and in both government and media discussion (e.g. Victorian Premier Jacinta Allan announces new cabinet and throughout Alleged politicisation of the public sector), I think that WP:COMMONNAME applies here.

Also of concern is where the list of portfolios that "grant an Member of Parliament a seat at cabinet" in the Cabinet section comes from - I can't find this mentioned anywhere online and it is unsourced in the article. Victorian Government websites state that all ministers are members of cabinet.

@GMH Melbourne: I see you've made most of the edits on this page, so I'd be keen to get your thoughts on this.

tamasys (talk) 04:22, 4 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This source shows which members of the executive council sit on cabinet (indicated by a "[CM]"). While the term cabinet is commonly used to describe the executive council there is a distinction. Not all ministerial portfolios sit in cabinet. I wasn't able to find any sources that explicitly state this in relation to Victoria but was able to find one for federal government ([1]).

I suspect that the source that says all ministers are members of cabinet is wrong as they are using the terms interchangeably, I think it's important to keep the two terms separate as they are technically separate bodies despite the fact they perform very similar roles. GMH Melbourne (talk) 01:49, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, thanks for the reply, sorry I missed yours! I believe the [CM] there refers to Coordinating Minister, which is the primary minister responsible for a department. There seem to be very few public sources with details about CMs, but they are discussed here: Statement From The Premier 24 June 2022. For example, Natalie Hutchins is listed as the Coordinating Minister for the Department of Jobs, Skills, Industry and Regions on their Our Ministers page.

My understanding is that in Victoria there is no practical distinction between Cabinet and the Executive Council, as all ministers are members of both. This differs from the federal implementation of similar bodies where there is an outer ministry.

I agree it's important to make the legal distinction between the two bodies clear. However I think that given they are sharing a page, "Cabinet of Victoria" fits best with the Wikipedia policy of using commonly recognisable names for article titles.

Absolutely not trying to sledge you and I totally see where the misunderstanding stems from. I won't edit the article myself due to WP:COI, but hopefully the information is helpful! tamasys (talk) 06:26, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Tamasys: Thank you for letting me know, the 'CM' makes sense, I just assumed it meant 'cabinet minister' (though i probably shouldn't have). I will make the necessary changes now. Also FYI, while editing with a COI is discouraged, you are allowed to edit with a COI, as long as you disclose it. Thank you for your help! GMH Melbourne (talk) 06:37, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No worries at all! I'm surprised there's so little public information about the topic. And that's true, although there's a lot of Wikipedia to edit so I might as well just avoid the articles that could cause drama haha. tamasys (talk) 05:53, 13 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]