Talk:Byung-hyun Kim

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography: Sports and Games

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	Sports portal This article is supported by the sports and games work group (assessed as Low-importance).

Baseball: Japanese / Korean / Red Sox Low‑importance

	Baseball portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Baseball, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of baseball on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BaseballWikipedia:WikiProject BaseballTemplate:WikiProject BaseballBaseball articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Japanese baseball task force.
	This article is supported by the Korean baseball task force (assessed as Mid-importance).
	This article is supported by WikiProject Boston Red Sox (assessed as Low-importance).

Korea Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Korea, a collaborative effort to build and improve articles related to Korea. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how use this banner, please refer to the documentation.KoreaWikipedia:WikiProject KoreaTemplate:WikiProject KoreaKorea-related articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Korean baseball task force.

Table removal

I removed the table. I don't quite see the point of it, it was half empty, and frankly, it was a waste of space. Doughboy 04:08, 19 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Nickname

I've seen him referred to as "BK Kim" in sports articles. Why is that? "BH Kim" would be more understandable. -Phoenixrod 19:28, 12 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Restaurant

He's Korean but owns a Japanese restaurant?? that's weird. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kskk2 (talk • contribs) 01:57, 1 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

2007 season and the victory in New York's historic collapse

Nevermind the fact that I'm a Mets fan, but seriously, Kim's start that Friday night had little to do with the Mets September collapse. He wasn't even great that night, Oliver Perez was just worse, which enabled Kim to get the win. The Mets still controlled their own destiny that Sunday anyway. Whoever wrote up the piece on the Mets collapse clearly peppered in a bit of his/her opinion along with the facts. In any case, is this a Wikipedia article about Kim or about the Mets? Someone please remove all this Mets historic collapse stuff, at least from this article, as if Kim was the sole reason the Mets blew it. --Qbizzle 02:21, 14 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you are a Mets fan and embarrassed about the historic collapse, bear with it and don't try to destroy the historical record. This record has no opinion on it - just facts. Kim was literally at the center of this historic collapse (if the pitching mound of the Shea Stadium is not the center, then where is the center?) and where did this article say that Kim pitched "great?" He was simply effective enough to help his team win this game. As the record clearly reveals, the Mets had two more games to recover but they failed with Tom Glavine's miserable performance on the final day (this is also stated on the record). Someone (probably a Mets fan) who just completely erased the whole record on the historic significance of this game in which Kim collected a win should be even more embarrassed. This information on the New York Mets' historic collapse should be there to explain the historical significance of this game. If Mets fans continue to try to erase this legitimate historical record, they will be forever regarded as cowards who cannot face the historical truth. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.126.115.36 (talk) 00:49, 7 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

How do you spell POV? :-) -Phoenixrod 04:09, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I deleted one whole paragraph about the Mets that I had nothing to do with Kim, but that entire sections still has serious issues. The wording doesn't even clarify what Kim's role was in beating the Mets, but from what I can gather there's no evidence that he played a particularly important role in that series.MashDownBabylon (talk) 05:34, 24 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Like one person above said - and I agree - what is important is the historical significance of the three-day series between the Marlins and the Mets and the series-starter game in which Kim started. From a historical perspective, it does not matter how Kim performed in the series starter. The mere fact that Kim was involved in this series starter warrants the recording of the historical account of these three games. These two paragraphs have to be there to explain the historical significance. The facts in these two paragraphs are true facts. These valuable historical accounts should not be deleted. (And Kim did pretty well in this game, considering that he pitched 5+ innings with finger blisters on his right index and middle fingers, even though it was not his best start.) It will be hard for Mets fans to relive this memory but these are solid facts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by HannahMTUSA (talk • contribs) 22:16, 24 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I also agree. The Mets lost to Kim in this game and eventually paid the consequence for handing Kim the starting-win decision in this game. Like David Wright said, if the Mets beat Kim in this game, the Mets may have avoided the historic collapse. This is why the historical accounts on the Mets' historic collapse should be here. If the things went opposite and the Mets beat Kim, avoided the collapse, and went all the way to win the World Series, baseball historians would not have missed that also. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JRailroad (talk • contribs) 00:03, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have trimmed much of the section down, including everything related to the Mets' collapse. The place to chronicle the collapse is at 2007 New York Mets season, and not here. Kim's involvement in the Mets' collapse was, at best, tangental. By your reasoning, every player who had a good outing against the Mets in the stretch run would need two (or more) paragraphs devoted to the Mets eventual elimination from playoff contention in their bios. That, however, is not how an encyclopedia works. It is sufficient to keep on topic and link to tangental information as needed. Please do not reintroduce this information before coming to a consensus, whether it be here or at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Baseball#Byung-Hyun Kim (where the matter has also been addressed). If you have any specific questions, please contact me. caknuck _° has a nasty slice in his golf swing 19:08, 18 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There is way too much detail in this article. Game-by-game recaps are overkill. You can link to that stuff elsewhere if necessary. The notion that one game might have prevented a collapse is strictly fan POV stuff and doesn't belong. Even with the more reasonable size attained by Caknuck's trimming, it's still twice the size of the article on Christy Mathewson. Maybe I should write a paragraph about each of Mathewson's 373 career wins. That would make some interesting reading also. P.S. I've had discussions with Mets fans who say the team wasn't really that good and that the law of averages simply caught up to them. As it did to the Rockies, eventually, for another example. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 00:24, 19 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Here is my suggestion to modify this:

2007 Season (drop the victory in NY's epic collapse)

On September 28, Kim collected his tenth win of the season against the Mets at Shea Stadium in New York City[40] and became the second South Korean pitcher after Chan Ho Park to win ten games in a Major League season.[41] This game dropped the Mets to the second place in the National League East Division for the first time since May 16, 2007. See 2007 Mets for more information on the Mets' epic collapse. In addition, this game helped Kim's former team Arizona Diamondbacks clinch a ticket to the postseason on the same night.[42]

I reversed caknuck's changes because it contained serious errors. I won't discuss it here further but I already told caknuck. WestArmyComm (talk) 01:46, 19 March 2008 (UTC)WestArmyComm[reply]

Unnotable Info

There is no need to say "at Coors Field" or whatever field the event happened at after every single event in the article. Why the hell is that paragraph about a U.S. diplomat talking about Kim in this article?!?!? If Curt Schilling watched Super Bowl XLII and posted encouraging words on his blog and said he had high expectations for the Patriots next season, should that be in the article? NO! That is not noteworthy! Just because famous person 1 mentions the name of famous person 2 or comments on events the 2nd famous person did, does not mean famous person 1's comments should go in famous person 2's article.

I think this entire article should be just blanked and rewritten from stratch.--Jackal4 (talk) 22:13, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Leave that section in. Hill's mention of Kim at the airport was a signal of a major shift in the U.S. diplomacy in South Korea at the field level. In the past, U.S. diplomats dealt with South Korean leaders but they rarely interacted with citizens in general. It was difficult to do that in the pre-internet era. With the advancement of the internet, these citizens' voices grew more and more influential in the U.S.-Korea relationship. The first George W. Bush administration's neocon hawkish stance against North Korea scared many South Koreans into believing that the United States may be contemplating a war in the Korean peninsula and they began to seriously distrust the United States. So at the time U.S. diplomats needed more friendly interactions with South Korean citizens and a little dose of sports diplomacy was a nice starter to send a friendly message to them publicly. That is why Hill mentioned about Kim at the airport and continued to say things about him as a part of his diplomatic efforts. You are right if Curt Schilling said some encouraging words to NE Pats for the SuperBowl XLII it won't gain much attention because his words won't carry any serious coded message. And you should mention what happened at what stadium. I mean, if you read a historical account on battles, don't you want to know where the battle took place?—Preceding unsigned comment added by WestArmyComm (talk • contribs) 00:37, 27 February 2008

I think that has very little to do with Kim and a lot more to do with U.S. and South Korean relations. I think it would make more sense to omit it from Kim's article and put it in an article about the U.S. and South Korean relations, like this one.--Jackal4 (talk) 17:09, 27 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for pulling out the foreign relations of South Korea article. :-) I agree that this section on Hill and Kim can be added to the "foreign relations of South Korea" article. But the content of this article is more extensive and in-depth than this section here. Hill did much more than just talking about Kim to approach South Korean citizens during those challenging times. I think there has to be more researches done to add this section - along with other things U.S. diplomats in Seoul did at the time to interact with South Korean citizens - to the "foreign relations of South Korea" article. And it will take time. And since Kim's name was mentioned by Hill publicly as a part of his diplomatic efforts, I do think this section has a legit place here and I am fine with it. It is a part of Kim's history too. Maybe what can be done, if you insist moving it, is that we leave it here now but eventually move it to the "foreign relations of South Korea" article with more information on the U.S. diplomatic efforts at the time and write about it little bit here and put here a link to the "foreign relations of South Korea" article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by WestArmyComm (talk • contribs) 23:52, 27 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I moved a substantial portion of this part to South Korea-United States relations and put a link. WestArmyComm (talk) 18:16, 16 March 2008 (UTC)WestArmyComm[reply]

Infobox timeline

Please stop bunching kim's separate stints with the same team together. It was agreed upon here in topic #36 Baseball player infoboxes that the list of teams should be in chronological order. Jackal4 (talk) 21:04, 19 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bill James?

Quick question about the following line - "Kim remained as a starter through June, but the Red Sox needed him as their closer because the Red Sox's closer-by-committee approach implemented following the advice of the famed baseball statistician and Red Sox adviser Bill James was failing." Can someone actually provide a source for that? I've never seen him advocate closer-by-committee, which is something a team would only do if it didn't have a bullpen ace. James has written at length about using your ace in more important situations than they're currently used in, which would seem to go against the speculation that he somehow pushed the Sox management into building a bullpen out of mediocre pitchers with no defined roles. Jason moyer (talk) 12:16, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Unexplained technical term

What is a "four-seam fastball"? Fastball, not especially technical, is blue-linked, but what is the thing about four-seam? Does it mean he has fingers on seams on four different places on the ball when he releases it?211.225.33.104 (talk) 23:49, 17 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Changed link to point to the four-seam fastball article instead. Spanneraol (talk) 03:16, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Byung-hyun Kim. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120929192542/http://www.mercurynews.com/peninsula/ci_14715456 to http://www.mercurynews.com/peninsula/ci_14715456

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 22:39, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Byung-hyun Kim. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 05:29, 26 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]