Talk:Burnley F.C./GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Kosack (talk · contribs) 20:19, 28 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'll pick this one up. Will probably get the review up around the new year. Kosack (talk) 20:19, 28 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Initial review

Lead

Linking countries is generally considered an WP:OVERLINK. I'd drop the link for England in the opening sentence. Dropped it
Exhibition match was moved to exhibition game recently, amend the link in the first paragraph. Changed it
Orient > Leyton Orient, use full team names on the first usage. I don't believe the side ever went by simply Orient. Leyton Orient was known as "Orient" between 1966 and 1987, but I changed it to "Leyton Orient" regardless

It seems I stand corrected on that one, 1986–87 in English football does state that they reverted to Leyton Orient at the end of that season and that is backed up by the official site history. I've restored the original version. Kosack (talk) 19:20, 1 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a reason Calder Vale is italicised? There is no reason, changed it

Early years (1882–1912)

As a sentence fragment, the image caption doesn't require a full stop. Done
Link Burnley in the first sentence, the main body is a separate entity from the lead. Done
"since other sports clubs in the area changed their codes", had changed perhaps? Changed it
"That same day, a large majority voted in favour of change of sports", I don't think we need "that same day" as we haven't changed focus since it was mentioned. Removed it
I don't think previous names need to be italicised. It is removed now
"Burnley win the first honour", win its first honour? Changed it
"and picked up many Scottish players", picked up sounds a little informal. Perhaps signed, enlisted or added? Changed it to "signed"
FA > Football Association (FA), use the full name of an organisation in its first usage and include the abbreviation in brackets for future uses. Done
"eventually finished 9th in the first season of the league", this run on doesn't really work with the first half of the sentence. Changed it
"Burnley with the first professional honours", again its rather than the? Changed it
"Burnley was relegated again in 1899–1900 and found themselves", a mix of singular and plural here. Changed now
"although the indications of success just around the corner were evident", this reads a little journalistic and doesn't really add anything. Removed it

Clarets' glory either side of the First World War (1912–1930)

Both image captions are fragments so don't require a full stop. Done
"reorganised itself and took a back seat to the needs of the conflict", reads a little over the top. I would say to simply state that the league was suspended during wartime. Altered the sentence
Does league championship need to be capitalised in the second paragraph? Changed it
"after he fell of a train", presumably off? Yes, done

Low points through the Second World War (1930–1946)

This section is rather short compared to the previous ones. I'd probably merge this one into the previous section for a more even balance. The year span is more similar to the previous and following sections as well. It is merged now
"by only two points", you've already got narrowly at the start of the sentence so only is a bit unnecessary here. Removed "only"
"broken only by a FA Cup semi-final appearance" > an FA Cup semi-final... Changed it
The second part of the paragraph has no sourcing. A paragraph should never really end without a source. Done

Golden, progressive era under Bob Lord, Alan Brown and Harry Potts (1946–1976)

The end of the first paragraph is unsourced. It is not anymore now
"the club became [...] renowned for their youth", a mix of singular and plural again. Changed
The first sentence of the fourth paragraph is quite long and could do with splitting. Done
"losing in a FA Cup semi-final to Tottenham", this sentence run on doesn't really work grammatically. Changed it now
I'd replace Spurs with Tottenham in the fifth paragraph. Tottenham is used throughout the article by this point and readers may be unfamiliar with this shortened term. Done
"Adamson reputedly turned down the England manager's post which then went to former Ipswich manager Alf Ramsey", is this really relevant to the club? Removed the sentence
Link League Cup. Done
"Burnley had also reached the quarter-finals of the 1966–67 Fairs Cup, in which they were knocked out by German side Eintracht Frankfurt", I'd probably drop had from this sentence as it reads a little oddly. Also, there is a mix of singular and plural with the reference to Burnley followed by they. Done
The end of the "remainder of the decade" paragraph needs a source. Done
"the side managed to finish 6th in 1974", up to this point, the full season ranges are used (e.g. 1934-35). I'd stick with that style for consistency. Changed it
"despite Dobson being sold to Everton early in that season", as the season is already mentioned at the start of the sentence, I don't think we need "in that season". Could be changed to something like "during the campaign". Great suggestion, changed it

Decline and near oblivion (1976–1987)

Image caption doesn't need the full stop again. Removed it
The Spurs issue again here, plus both Tottenham and Liverpool are linked previously so no need to repeat them. Done
The final sentence of the first paragraph is quite long and could be split. It is split now
"finishing 21st in every of those five seasons", every > each. Changed it
Orient > Leyton Orient. Done (see above)
"Had Burnley been relegated, the club would probably have been dissolved", that seems like a bit of a stretch reading the source. There is mention of a possible demise but this seems to be presenting it more as a certainty. Removed the sentence

Recovery (1987–2000)

"A capacity crowd of 80,000 people packed Wembley was a record for a match between two teams from English football's fourth tier", sentence doesn't really work in its current format. Reworded the sentences
"after a fierce battle against local club Stockport County", local to where? Changed it to "Greater Manchester club"
"former English international Ian Wright making fifteen appearances for the club, scoring four goals, before retiring as a player at the end of the season", is that an especially notable moment in the club's 130 year history? Removed it

Championship years (2000–2009)

"Stan Ternent considered it the greatest achievement", we already know who Ternent is by this point so there's no need to include his first name. Done
Liverpool and Aston Villa are both linked previously and mentioned more than once, no need to link them here. Done
First paragraph ends without a source? Added a source
Second part of the second paragraph is unsourced. Again, added a source
I would suggest merging the recovery and Championship sections. The first four sections of the history section (three if we agree to merge the third as per above) cover nearly 100 years, yet the last three cover around 30 years. Great shout, it is merged now

Premier League promotions, relegations and back in Europe (2009–present)

A couple of repeat links in the first paragraph, Premier League and Bolton Wanderers. Removed it
QPR > Queens Park Rangers, use full team names for the first mention. Done
"Sean Dyche only used 23 players throughout the season", no need to reuse first name, he's mentioned extensively by now. Removed it
"went yet one better than the previous time", this reads rather clunkily and comes across a little journalistic. Reworded it
"equaling their club record", singular/plural usage Changed it
"Dyche used just 25 players during the season this time", the source at the end of the sentence doesn't support this. Removed this part
"modern training centre, Barnfield", is modern necessary. The club were hardly likely to build an out of date one. Removed "modern"
"historical, vast 60-year-old Gawthorpe", historical and vast are unnecessary here as well I would say. Removed both words
"The European tour, however, already ended in August", this sentence needs rewording. The European Tour sounds more like the wording of a fansite and "however, already ended" doesn't really work either. Reworded it

Notable former players

"Welshman Leighton James owns a club record too", again sounds more like a journalism piece. I'd drop the owns part and simply go with "Welshman Leighton James is the only Burnley player..." Done
"The following 31 (32) players", a little confusing. Perhaps simply write "Including Yates, the following 32 players were picked"? Done
In the player of the year award heading, Burnley FC > Burnley F.C. FC (without full stops) is often used by the club to refer to this award, but changed it to your suggestion
The source for the player of the year award was published in 2014 yet we have awards for the five seasons since? Added the five sources

Managers

The table needs scope:rows per MOS:DTT. Eh I had to check how to do this, but I think I pulled this one off

Owners

"Burnley is one of the few clubs in the top two tiers who", singular/plural clash. Changed it
"none of them are getting paid", a little informal sounding. Given the run on of the sentence something like "Every director at the club is locally born, a Claret supporter and receives no wages"? Reworded it to your suggestion of "receives no wages"

Kits and colours

Second paragraph is partially unsourced. Added sources now

Crest

"In the 1987–88 season Burnley returned to the former, new designed crest of 1979", source? Done

Stadium

"Burnley has played their", singular/plural clash. Changed it
Last sentence of the first paragraph is unsourced. Changed it
There are several repeat links in the second paragraph, Royal Family, Prince Albert Victor and Bolton Wanderers. Removed it
This is the third time in the article that the royal visit in 1886 is mentioned. Do we need to repeat it here? Removed it
"consists of 4 stands", numbers lower than 10 are spelled out per MOS:NUMERAL. Done
"Match of the Day began in 1964, Lord banned the BBC", Lord is referred to fully in the next part as chairman Alan Lord. Switch these around so the full name and position is for the first mention. Done

Supporters

Image caption is a sentence fragment, no full stop needed. Done
Blackburn are linked in the first and second paragraph, no need to repeat the link in such close proximity. Removed now

Rivalries

"The two clubs are separated by fourteen miles (22.5 kilometres)", source? Added the BBC source where it is said
"although in an alleged pre-league friendly", why is it alleged? At the time, there was no name for these matches, it was given afterwarts, that is why it is alleged. However, I removed "alleged"
Last sentence of the second paragraph is unsourced. Not anymore now

Honours

Is third place in the FA Cup really an honour? Removed it
Why are play-off victories bolded? No real reason, changed it

Burnley in Europe

"The Clarets' most third and recent European campaign", a bit jumbled here. "Third and most recent" was better, but removed "third and" regardless
Most of the section is unsourced. Changed it

Records

Image caption is a sentence fragment, no need for a full stop. Done
"The club's largest win in league football has been a 9–0 victory", has been sounds odd. Was a 9-0...? Indeed changed to "was"

References

Refs 3, 110, 124, 126 and 161 have a date of publication available. Done
Why is Clarets-mad.co.uk a reliable source? As said below, most of the articles are written and maintained by Tony Scholes (I believe he had an important position at the club). If you think it's not reliable, I will change it.

Scholes does seem to be a well known name at the club in terms of history judging by a search. A seemingly reputable name being involved may save this source. If you wished to get this up to FA in future, you would probably need something more concrete. Kosack (talk) 20:57, 2 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

RSSSF refs (11, 13, 15, 18, 22, 26, 29, 53, 59, 62, 175) have authors at the bottom of the page. Changed it
Refs 30, 46, 47, 49, 52, 73, 74, 101, 103, 116, 122, 126 have an available author. Done
Refs 34, 92, 156 and 169 need a publisher. Done
Soccerbase is one word. Changed it
Refs 105 and 106 need accessdates. Done

On first glance, there is a sizeable amount of issues but there's nothing that requires serious rebuilding of the article I would say, so I'm happy to let this one run for now. One overall issue I would also raise is the use of italics for things such as the name of training grounds, teams, etc, that don't really require them. Placed on hold for now. Kosack (talk) 13:15, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Kosack, thank you for the feedback. I read your points and altered the page. Do you think it's better now, or are there still important flaws? The only thing I "ignored" was your point about "Clarets Mad". The pieces are written by Tony Scholes, and as far I'm concerned, he had an important position at the club (club historian I believe). Do you think the Clarets Mad sources are still reliable enough to be used? --WA8MTWAYC (talk) 22:56, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Kosack, I have added a (short) description behind your points. Regarding the overuse of italics, I have removed most now. --WA8MTWAYC (talk) 14:50, 31 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Quick work! I'll take another run through this as soon as I can over the new year. Kosack (talk) 15:52, 31 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Cheers. That is fine. Happy new year (in advance)! --WA8MTWAYC (talk) 16:07, 31 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Follow up

Lead

"Just twenty years later, in 1979–80", Just is probably unnecessary here. 20 years is a long time in football. Dropped "just"

Early years (1882–1912)

"Burnley was also known as "The Turfites", "Moorites" or "Royalites"", what's the source for this? Added a (German) source
"negating the effect of Burnley and Stoke City's reputed collusion", could do with a source for a suggestion of collusion. If it's already been used, I'd repeat it here to strengthen the claim up. Andrew Ward (2016) gives insights about the match, so I used his book again (read it via Google Books)

Recovery (1987–2009)

"scored the vital goal in a match known as "The £50,000,000 final"", the match report for the play-off final doesn't seem to support this but one shouldn't be hard to find. Added a source

Premier League promotions, relegations and back in Europe (2009–present)

"an away win to defending champions Chelsea", I'm not sure you can win to a side. Perhaps against? Changed it
"drawing against eventual inexpugnable league champions and record breakers Manchester City", that's hefty praise for an opposition team and sounds like it's influenced by media in recent years. Eventual league champions is probably sufficient. Done

I've gone through again and picked out the remaining points above. I've also been doing some minor copyediting that you may wish to review, nothing more than one word being dropped or added and inline with changes previously made, but nonetheless feel free to check. I'm down to the supporters section for my second run through, I'll finish up the rest asap. Kosack (talk) 20:36, 1 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It seems fine to me. That's great. --WA8MTWAYC (talk) 22:03, 1 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing particularly troublesome in the rest of the article so I'm happy to pass this one now. I belive the GA criteria is met. Nice work on this one. Promoting. Kosack (talk) 20:58, 2 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, Kosack. Not only for promoting, but also for improving this page. Take care.--WA8MTWAYC (talk) 22:11, 2 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]