Talk:Burj el-Shamali

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Coordinate error

{{geodata-check}}

The following coordinate fixes are needed for Burj el-Shemali, the coordinate is right off the coast and i assume it is not under water. I don't know where it is though.

—31.168.125.74 (talk) 00:21, 23 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Coordinates emended. Thanks for pointing out the error. Deor (talk) 14:13, 23 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Burj el-Shemali vs Borj Ech Chemali

How to we co-ordinate these two articles?

Should this then be about the refugee camp, while Borj Ech Chemali is about the old village? Comments please! Huldra (talk) 20:19, 31 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Huldra, absolutely right, many thanks, honoured by your cooperation, apologies for still figuring out things as a fairly recent Wikipedian-newcomer!

Unfortunately, I was not aware of the Borj Ech Chemali article when I started expanding this one. No offense meant, but the Borj spelling is basically the French one and does not itself on the ground represent the presence of two distinct entities, Palestinian camp vis á vis Lebanse village/town. Regardless, it is obviously a key issue though how to differentiate and yet at the same time integrate them. After much discussion and pondering of grassroots experience with my wife, I would argue that you simply cannot separate the two into two articles. Rather, we should strife to merge them into one and make very clear within this one article any distinctions between Palestinian self-rule inside the actual camp with UNRWA, Lebanese Army around it etc. and on the other hand the Lebanese municipality with its Mayor, Amal-Centre etc. Despite some clear-cut borders, i.e. checkpoint at camp entry, many boundaries and identities are blurred and fluid, with Palestinians living outside the camp, Palestinian-Syrians, Syrians, even some Lebanese living inside. What do you and User:Onceinawhile think? RomanDeckert (talk) 09:53, 2 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Roman, thanks for your thoughtful post, and for alerting me to it.

I think one article is fine; as we likely don't have enough content for two at this point. My only thought on the fluidity point is that it is common for "neighbourhoods" within normal cities to have fluid borders, yet many will have Wikipedia articles. So in time we could choose to have a separate article if the content justified it.

I agree with Burj el-Shemali being the better spelling, although I would note that we are not consistent in our Romanization of Arabic (see Bourj el-Barajneh). I would like to get it to a consistent place one day.

Onceinawhile (talk) 09:26, 2 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you once more! I agree that it probably comes down in the end to whether there is enough content. In fact, there is a very comprehensive profile of adjacent Maachouk neighbourhood by UN Habitat which would totally justify an article of its own, but apparently much less data on Burj Al Shemali openly available. Then, Maachouk is also quite fluid and would require at least at first to have a common one including various parts.. Cheerio! RomanDeckert (talk) 10:19, 2 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I have tried (in the cases where I have started these article) to follow the Localiban-spelling. There is a problem in uniting these two articles though, in that other wiki project (such as ar.wp) have two different articles: one for the village, and one for the refugee-camp. How do we solve this? (And yeah; sometimes I think that making re-dirs is one of the most important things you can do, when you edit these articles with names originally in Arabic!) Huldra (talk) 21:24, 2 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

PS: And thank you User:RomanDeckert, for all your wonderful pictures from Southern Lebanon, that has been greatly missed! Huldra (talk) 22:11, 2 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Somebody appreciates after all, yippieh! I enjoyed taking and editing them so much anyways, but extra-nice to get some social recognition! RomanDeckert (talk) 22:24, 2 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, I am convinced: I would then first try to complete as much as possible the overall one about the municipality and then mirror it in a separate article about the camp. I guess much will be same, but with different focus, fair enough! RomanDeckert (talk) 22:24, 2 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I love your pictures! I don't edit the Lebanese articles very much (I mostly edit Palestinian places), but back in 2016 I spent half a year trying to "clean up" the Lebanese village articles. (Among other things: there were about a dozen places where there were two articles for the same place...just slightly different spelling.) I made a few of the articles on Southern Lebanese villages (south of the Litany river), as I had the sources (like the 1596-census, or the Guerin-info). Unfortunately, the Lebanese-villages have very few editors/"watchers", and very few pictures made available; your work is greatly appreciated! Huldra (talk) 22:59, 2 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

2024 update

Where this stands, 4 1⁄2 years later –

@10:21, 26 November 2024 Syrian91 moved Borj Ech Chemali to Burj ash-Shamali, with rationale "Misspelled"
@14:38, 27 November 2024 Syrian91 moved Burj ash-Shamali to Al-Bustan, Tyre, again with rationale "Misspelled"
- I've split the page history at the point of this disingenuous move which created a new stub about a place with population 420, of questionable notability
@16:12, 11 December 2024 Wbm1058 moved Al-Bustan, Tyre to Burj ash-Shamali over a redirect without leaving a redirect (revert bad move. ridiculous assertion that Burj ash-Shamali is a misspelling of Al-Bustan, conflating two different places)
@17:38, 11 December 2024 Wbm1058 moved Burj ash-Shamali to Burj al-Shamali (the sources from the 1800s may use various different spellings, but the two cited online sources both spell this "Burj al-Shamali")
Special:Permalink/1262569105 is where the other "Borj Ech Chemali" article currently sits. I've also come to the conclusion that "you simply cannot separate the two into two articles", and redirected that article (fork), as the content appears to have been merged. – wbm1058 (talk) 14:59, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article currently cross-wikis to ar:مخيم_البرج_الشمالي which has a scope limited to the Burj al-Shamali camp – wbm1058 (talk) 15:11, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ar:برج_الشمالي is the Arabic stub about the village/municipality. It currently doesn't cross-wiki to any other languages. – wbm1058 (talk) 15:23, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]