Talk:Bull-leaping

Previous comment

What about the images that clearly show goring? Novium 19:32, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

This sardonic comment is actually not too far off the mark. The article confuses two sorts of bull-leaping. The one referenced by the name, seizing the horns and vaulting over them, is not done, probably never has been done, and is impossible. That jerk of the horns is way too fast for an acrobat to get any "purchase" from it. The bull comes at you like a freight train. There is no opportunity to grab the horns at all. Even if by chance you did, there is no opportunity to spring yourself off in a balanced fashion. Evans saw that immediately, and just to be sure, he consulted some toreadors. It would be something like trying to grab a thrown spear and somersaulting off it. This kind of bull-leaping is the product of the imagination of the scholars, who looked at lots of representations but apparently no bullfights. The toreador in a bullfight has all he can do to avoid the horns. One slip and he goes to the hospital. Connecting with the horns is something like getting hit with an automobile. Ever see any pictures of people somersaulting off the hood of a car? Neither have I. The second kind of bull-leaping is possible. If you are a trained leaper or pole-vaulter and the bull is a small, tame one, you might jump over it without touching it. That custom has nevertheless sent many to the hospital or their graves. Our article here lumps the two togther. Can't be done. Evans points out that these bull-human representations always show the human doing impossible things, such as lifting a bull over their heads. This is a supernatural scene in art, like superman of the comic books. In real life we do not look for people to leap tall buildings at a single bound or handspring over charging bulls while naked ladies hold the horns. So, I will correct that not too long from now when I get to the article. The source given, which I have seen, gives a great classification of bull-leaping scenes but he nowhere says that any of those are real or possible.Dave (talk) 14:09, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Somersaults

The section regarding somersaults in the iconography is confusing. In type I and II it describes an acrobat approaching the bull from the front and performing a backwards somersault, but a backwards somersault is where the acrobat looks behind them and somersaults backwards. It would be logical for the acrobats to be performing a forward somersault instead, which appears to be what they are doing in the depictions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.192.23.103 (talk) 03:13, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

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Jean-Pierre Rachou's method of death and year

There seems to be a contradiction about how Jean-Pierre Rachou died. One, if not both versions, is false. In the article Bullfighting it is written, "The course landaise is not seen as a dangerous sport by many, but écarteur Jean-Pierre Rachou died in 2003 when a bull's horn tore his femoral artery." In the article Bull-leaping, it is written, "Although there is little to no risk to the cow in this form of contest, it is a highly dangerous sport for the human participants; a prominent one from Montois, Jean-Pierre Rachou, was killed in 2001 when he fell on his head after being hit by a cow." Note that "Jean-Pierre Rachou" is NOT mentioned in either of the two French wiki articles [1] or [2].

The only consistency in the statements is that it is related to France and 'course landaise'. Since there was a "citation needed" tag in the Bullfighting article, I went looking for a source. Unfortunately, I didn't find any reliable source confirming year (2001 or 2003) or method of death (cow or bull, head injury or pierced artery). What I found were the same two sentences copied everywhere (on blogs and wikis). If we cannot confirm any of this, I think we should remove the mention of the name "Jean-Pierre Rachou" from English Wikipedia.

(Cross-posted on Talk pages of Bullfighting and Bull-leaping)

— Normal Op (talk) 21:01, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

ImageColor

I replaced the image at the top of the article with an image of the same fresco, but at a much higher resolution. There is a problem: the image I used is entirely blue while the replaced image is entirely tan. Very different colors. Which is correct?

new image

old image

Nick Beeson (talk) 12:39, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Correct would probably be somewhere in between, as so often! But the new one is certainly better. Johnbod (talk) 15:39, 27 February 2021 (UTC)