Talk:Buddhism/Structure

highlights of old discussions

I suggest that "Thematic" be the first order followed by "Historical." (That is, organize by themes and then within themes order historically, e.g., "Practices" followed by "first this," "then this," etc.) How does that sound? Windy Wanderer (talk) 13:04, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Now to your suggestion. I hadn't thought of combining 2 arrangements like that. If it's done that way we'll need an introductory outline of history to give context. It's an interesting idea. East Asian Buddhism, which now turns out not to be properly sourced (like much of the article). Peter jackson (talk) 17:39, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

My remarks here seem to have been messed up. I haven't got the time now to sort it out. Peter jackson (talk) 11:14, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

The historical arrangement is fairly consistently as follows:

1. India
   1. Early ("Hinayana"; derogatory name)
   2. Middle (Mahayana)
   3. Late (Vajrayana/tantra/esoteric)
2. Theravada: close to early Indian Buddhism
3. East Asian Buddhism: derived from middle-period Indian Buddhism, but adapted very substantially to Chinese civilization
4. Tibetan: close to late Indian Buddhism
5. Modern/Western

(talk) 10:04, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm suggesting historical as the main structure, and then within that go by themes. I don't know the body of literature well so don't know much more to suggest. Here are some layperson ideas but I'm not an expert:

1. Origins (where/who/when)
2. Beliefs/Practices (what/how)
3. Contribution to Buddhism today/Current groups (where groups are? who practices? current activities?)
4. Relation to other Buddhist traditions (more conservative? literal? austere?)

Windy Wanderer (talk) 14:55, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Let me try to rough out how your ( Windy Wanderer (talk) 13:04, 24 April 2008 (UTC)) scheme might work in practice:

1. Indian Buddhism
   1. Early
      1. Origins: the Buddha &c
      2. karma & rebirth, 4 noble truths, 5 precepts, monastic order, stupas, abhidharma ...
      3. Theravada Buddhism close to this; many ideas & practices still used in mahayana as well
      4. ?
   2. middle
      1. origins of Mahayana
      2. teachings &practices: bodhisattvas, emptiness, mind-only ...
      3. East Asian Buddhism derived from this
      4. radical reform of earlier tradition
   3. late
      1. origins of tantra
      2. practices
      3. Tibetan Buddhism close to this
      4. less radical relative to Mahayana
2. Theravada
   1. arrival in Ceylon
   2. ...
   3. main religion of Veylon, Burma, Thailand, Cambodia, Laos
   4. conservative
3. East Asian Buddhism
   1. introduction to China
   2. Pure Land, Zen &c
   3. main Buddhism of China, Korea, Vietnam, Japan
   4. nonliteral
4. Tibetan
   1. introduction to Tibet
   2. ...
   3. Tibet, Mongolia, Bhutan, Kalmykia
5. ...

Peter jackson (talk) 11:17, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

refractored text

Organization of Christianity:

1. Beliefs
2. Worship
3. History
4. Branches
5. Figures

Peter jackson (talk) 13:27, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Figures means demographics. Peter jackson (talk) 13:28, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, it is a start. I imagine what you are getting at is the simplicity of the structure. That is admirable. However, it seems a sure bet that we will need different terms and likely greater complexity in our structure. We have already had difficulty identifying a set of common beliefs. The term "worship" also seems problematic. "Figures" is not transparent at all. Sunray (talk) 21:33, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I highly suggest sticking to the approximate structure of the other big articles on "religions". Beliefs/central concepts has to be first here as well, as religion is first and foremost a way of thinking/an intellectual and cultural concept/belief system. And please, one more suggestion...don´t be too painstakingly accurate in trying to represent all scholars and all beleivers opinions...like that, the article would become unreadable. 213.196.199.47 (talk) 13:28, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

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I didn't have time to explain what I was doing. To help us get ideas without having to reinvent the wheel, I thought it would be agood idea to have here the tables of contents of parallel articles, & also of books aboput Buddhism.

Islam:

1. Etymology & meaning
2. Articles of faith
3. Duties & practices
4. History
5. Community
6. Other religions
7. Denominations

Judaism:

1. Religious doctrines & principles of faith
2. Texts
3. Identity
4. Denominations
5. Observances
6. Leadership
7. History
8. Other religions

Hinduism:

1. Etymology
2. Beliefs
3. History
4. Scriptures & theology
5. Practices
6. Rituals
7. Pilgrimage & festivals
8. Society

Historical arrangement:

1. Indian
2. Theravada
3. East Asian
4. Tibetan
5. Modern/Western

This arrangement, with variations,is used in

• Bechert & Gombrich, World of Buddhism
• (New) Penguin Handbook of Living Religions
• Robinson et al, Buddhist Religions
• Prebish & Keown, Introducing Buddhism

Peter jackson (talk) 08:50, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Harvey, Introduction to Buddhism: Teachings, History and Practices:

1. Buddha
2. Rebirth & karma
3. 4 holy truths
4. Early developments
5. Mahayana philosophy
6. ditto holy beings
7. Later history
8. Devotion
9. Ethics
10. Sangha
11. Meditation & development of wisdom
12. Modern Asia
13. Beyond Asia

• Appendix: Scriptures (short)

The chapters are more or less explicitly grouped by the subtitle:

• Teachings: 2, 3, 5, 6
• History: 1, 4, 7, 12, 13
• Practices: 8-11

The Routledge Encyclopedia of Buddhism is arranged alphabetically, but the intro lists 8 general categories:

1. History
2. traditions & schools
3. Significant persons
4. Canons, texts & other literature
5. Concepts & ideas
6. Rituals & customs
7. Sacred places
8. Diaspora

The thematic index lists 24 major topics, whose relation to the above is not clear. Each has a general survey article of standrd length, & a varying number of other articles of varying shorter lengths. They are as follows (alphabetically by full title).

• Academic study of Buddhism
• Famous Buddhists & ideal types
• Buddha
• Technology (writing, printing & computers)
• The West
• China
• India
• Japan
• Korea
• S & SE Asia
• Tibet
• Arts
• Canons & literature
• Ethics
• Meditation
• Dharma
• Mahayana
• Nikaya Buddhism
• Practices & rituals
• Sacred places
• Sangha
• Engaged Buddhism
• Vajrayana
• Women

Peter jackson (talk) 11:11, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Olson, The Different Paths of Buddhism, Rutgers University Press, 2005:

1. Origins and historical development
2. Theravada philosophy & practice
3. Major Mahayana movements & schools
   • The bodhisattva's path to perfection
   • Philosophy of emptiness
   • Pure Land
   • Tibetan
   • Zen
   • Recent paths of reform & revival

Lopez, Buddhism in Practice

• Buddha
• Dharma
• Sangha

In (Story of) Buddhism he changes to

1. The universe
2. The Buddha
3. The Dharma
4. Monastic life
5. Lay practice
6. Enlightenment

In Buddhist Scriptures he changes again:

1. The universe
2. The Buddha
3. Monastic life
4. Meditation & other rituals
5. Enlightenment

Peter jackson (talk) 15:50, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Gethin, Foundations of Buddhism: concerned mainly with early Buddhism. My notes here may not be exactly correct.

1. Story of the Buddha
2. Scriptures & schools
3. 4 noble truths
4. Monastic & lay ways of life
5. Cosmology, karma & rebirth
6. No self & dependent arising
7. Meditation
8. Abhidharma
9. Mahayana
10. Outside India

Peter jackson (talk) 15:57, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Listings like these may suggest ideas about both organization & topics to include. Peter jackson (talk) 15:58, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

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