Jump to content

Talk:Bucking horse

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Need to add categories

[edit]

Dawnleelynn - I got the article started, and there are plenty of sources to use for expanding it. Atsme✍🏻📧 19:38, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Atsme Hi, I got some categories entered. I had to remove some though, I don't why I was thinking to add the rider categories. I'm not totally with it right now, about 90% maybe, LOL. Anyway, I'm thinking not to add any horse breed categories at this point. There is no organization for horses like the ABB for bulls that I'm aware of, so they are all mixed breed. Well, on second thought, there are some Quarter Horses out there. There's even an award for them - the PRCA/AQHA award and I've got that documented in the PRCA champions article. They also call it the WPRA/AQHA award if you go to the WPRA website rather than the PRCA web site. Any way, I'll work on this article and another project I'm doing, switching back and forth. I think it's good, we have a bucking bull article, and now we'll have a bucking horse article. Regarding the mention in the Bronco article about the bucking horse license, I'm here in Cheyenne so I have it. It has its own article, so I can just link to it Bucking Horse and Rider. It mentions Steamboat the horse. There's also a bit of stuff on Steamboat at the Cheyenne Frontier Days Old West Museum, and you are free to take pictures there as long as you don't use flash. dawnleelynn(talk) 22:03, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Atsme Found this book on the history of bronc riding in my library doing an online search - "A belly full of bedsprings : the history of bronc riding" [1] There's just 3 books in this author's list; it's the second one in the list. Click the Call List link (it's red), and then click "More about this title." Claims to talk about the horses, mentioning "famous" ones by name. I used one of her online blogs for V-61; wouldn't have been able to do the article without it. dawnleelynn(talk) 00:11, 18 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
There is a world of knowledge for you on the internet as well, Dawnleelynn. Bob Tallman talks a little about the Kesslers. But you have to put it all together. The info leads to other sources. You can also check the sources to relative articles we already have, like Bronco and Benny Binion. Individual articles, and opposing views of PETA’s take on it but it must be stated in an encyclopedic tone - no advocacy. There are bucking horse breeding associations. News articles, and a DNA registry for bucking horses, like with bulls. And on and on. Atsme✍🏻📧 00:49, 18 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Atsme It's just not my day. I didn't make that last message clear either, my bad. In that link "More About this title" I was specifically focusing on how it talks about no book covering the full evolution of rodeo into a major American sport. The evolution of the cow horse from trail drives and ranches to bucking horse - the early part. It discusses the history in the latter part of the 1880s up til now. So, I was focusing on that early part, because it's not really discussed online in detail. That was my point about V-61 as well. I had little online sources for the bull as his "career" was based in the 1960s. And he's in two halls of fame (though not ProRodeo). But yes, of course all of those online sources you named as well as Vold and Rosser, etc.
AtsmeJust btw, I'm researching sources, organizing them in my bookmarks, and getting familiar with them as I don't know as much about bucking horses as I do about bucking bulls. Thanks for the bits you are adding. So there is a registry now, that's cool. dawnleelynn(talk) 19:23, 18 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I wanted to get some of that stuff included, and then we can go back and arrange the sections regarding the bucking horse characteristics as they relate to their respective events - such as bareback horses, what are considered desirable traits, examples of great bareback broncs. It needs a history section, too. Bronc is a good place to look for historic references. Oh, and I was wondering why the DNA registry is not mentioned in Bucking bull? It needs at least a brief mention that a DNA registry exists. See how I used the term roughstock and the DNA registry here with thoughts in mind of wiki-linking the two articles so bucking horse isn't an orphan. Atsme✍🏻📧 20:14, 18 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Testing, testing, 1 2 3 ... do you have this article on your Watchlist so I don't have to keep pinging you? I'll soon find out. Yes, bucking bull needs a lot of work actually, to answer your question. But I will add the information about the ABB to it by the end of today; that's important. I also need to update the ABB article now that Bruiser won the PBR World Champion Bull at the PBR World Finals this month. It was his third in a row and now there three bulls that have won three championships. He also tied with legendary bull Little Yellow Jacket for winning three in a row; it's a big deal. And I need to find more information on notable breeding bull whitewater Skoal (A Rosser bull). And reply to SmCandish's last message as well as making sure he has read the article since I rewrote he. He mentioned he was going to read all of the messages about the copyright issue. Back on point, I believe I will do some of the organizing for the article here in the talk page under sections. I usually do that anyway, and it saves me time, especially if I have another writer who is overviewing the article. They can point things out prior to the writing, and I can avoid writing those things. Will ping you when I have something. Oh, and yes regarding orphan articles, I will have some articles to add this one to later. dawnleelynn(talk) 20:31, 18 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

[edit]

About bucking horses

[edit]

This section contains links that are used in the live article and new links I found in initial research that may be used.

Origin Sources

[edit]

Books/Google Previews of Books:

Etyomology

[edit]

America

[edit]

Mustangs & wild horses

[edit]

Sources specific to countries (or include them)

[edit]

This section is new on June 28, 2019. I have links on early Australia, Mexico, and two on European rodeo. There doesn't seem to be much available for Europe. But I will keep looking. I have also been trying to find sources for the content in the existing article that has already been written, such as the etymology. No luck yet. I have been sorting through all of the sources in the article as well and trying to reconcile everything together in order to decide where to begin. dawnleelynn(talk) 21:00, 28 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

America

[edit]

Australia

[edit]

Europe

[edit]

Stock Contractors

[edit]

Harry Void

Kesler

Rosser

Tooke

Cowboys

[edit]

Benny Binion

Earl Bascom

Famous Horses

[edit]

Virgil

Khadafy Skoal

Midnight

Smith & Velvet

Steamboat

Three Bars

Miles City Bucking Sale

Gray Wolf

Rules

[edit]

Terminology

[edit]

Dawnleelynn - let's try to keep the anthropomorphisms out of the article (words like "affectionate") - think encyclopedic terminology. Also, please be careful and avoid close paraphrasing and like terminology from cited sources. I reverted the bronco part you added because the plan is to merge Bronco as history-etymology sections in this article but before we do anything I'd like to get Montanabw to share her thoughts about the merge. WP has no deadlines, so let's take our time and get the article right. Atsme✍🏻📧 05:06, 30 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Atsme - I'm pretty sure you have found out you won't be able to get much help from montanabw for a bit. I was helping her with her project when you asked me to help with this article, which is why I didn't get working on it right away. Anyway, I'm not exactly sure how to help you now, but I have a suggestion. Why don't I work on some content in a sandbox article in my User space instead? Then you could take the content you want from it. I don't care about edit credit. Also, you could make any suggestions on what area to work on as there is plenty of source. dawnleelynn(talk) 21:35, 4 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
You’re on to something - go ahead and work in your sandbox when you have time, and ping me when you’re ready for a review. I’ll give it a look and happily collaborate with you on the content before you add it to the article. Two heads are always better than one. We can iron out the wrinkles in the sandbox and then you can add it to the article. How does that sound? Atsme✍🏻📧 04:12, 10 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Atsme Hi, that sounds great. I'll be working on it this week. I just finished a barrel racer article on Wanda Harper Bush and it's in the DYK queue now. Ping you when I have something. dawnleelynn(talk) 04:32, 10 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Atsme Just a quick note. I have taken a break from this due to a virus and also helping montanabw again, she's down to the wire on the current deadline. But I'll be working on it again soon (this week). I have much more I can offer to the article. Merry Christmas Eve! dawnleelynn(talk) 20:18, 24 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Atsme Update, this may help. I had many issues, including health where I stopped working on the bucking horse sandbox. Then I got a great straightaway where I was able to work on it for over a week, in which I got done all the chapters but two. Then a legal issue came up (It's fine now). But starting now I can work on it again. Like I said I just have two more chapters to go through from the book. Note that if you want to read through it, do it in source mode so you can read the many comments. I'm going to put the comments in another form because I realized that's a pain for reading. Anyway, after that I'll be putting in wikilinks, citations, and doing some rewriting which is what I told you I normally do. Also, I'll be adding in new content from the Sources in this article that we found since the book ends in 1998. We'll want two more decades covered which the book does not have. Where there are lists of riders and broncs for each decade, I did not paraphrase those. We'll pick the ones we want to have in the article and then I can paraphrase from the books and the Internet. Also, I have all of the book scanned into Google Drive now so you'll be able to check on things as you wish. I will send you a link to the whole folder in email later. Here's the link to sandbox article for convenience: User:Dawnleelynn/Bucking horse sandbox. It also may help with the discussion going on about the article merging as the book talks about broncs, bucking horses, and outlaws. It has some very good early history. One last thing, I paraphrased the whole book so when I'm done the whole content will be copied to become a bronc riding sandbox and just the content that applies to bucking horses will stay in this sandbox. Plus montanabw asked me to try to find sources from the bronc article and use that content if possible. dawnleelynn(talk) 20:22, 2 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Glad to know you've gotten most of your issues resolved and that your health has improved (the latter being most important). My thoughts are to give DUE WEIGHT as it relates globally to bucking horses rather than just US rodeo and the old West. I haven't spent a great deal of time researching that aspect but I did find this after a quickie Google. I'm of the mind there are more sources, some leading up to the introduction of bucking horses for rodeo events in Europe. Atsme Talk 📧 22:22, 2 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Atsme Sure, the article is about all bucking horses, not just rodeo...I have just been focused on this part for awhile. Haven't even looked at the sources I section I created in here for awhile. Interesting article. Definitely will have to put start thinking about this again, thanks. dawnleelynn(talk) 22:58, 2 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Atsme I was AWOL all weekend due to hard drive crash. But now all is fixed, and I even recovered my files. I will started working on my sandbox again today. On the last chapter and then will get to my second round of editing it. Hope all is well with you! :)) dawnleelynn(talk) 19:18, 8 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The fact you were able to recover your files is a blessing for sure! All is well on my end - just busier than a peach orchard canary. One of the things I like best about WP is "no deadline" so there's no need for you to get in a hurry. Edit when you have time - it's all good. Atsme Talk 📧 20:39, 8 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Atsme Thanks, I like that too about Wikipedia, but there's taking your time and then there's procrastination - talking about me, not you. And being preventing from editing due to issues sometimes irks me a bit when it's like computer problems and such. But yes you are absolutely right about recovering the files being a blessing, as well as knowing so much about computer hardware and software from my dad and my past jobs. :) glad to hear all is well overall. dawnleelynn(talk) 21:13, 8 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Atsme Getting time to work on bucking horse almost every day for awhile now. Sometimes I need a break from it, and I work on something else. The other day I created some things we had talked about quite awhile ago. I noticed that your friend m-pants-at-work was blocked, so I created the basic templates myself instead. You recall the Professional Bull Riders series template he created? Well I had wanted to do one for the Professional Rodeo Cowboys Association. I created a basic template, used blue similar to their logo, and a free image from Commons. Since then I created most of the articles for the Canadian Professional Rodeo Association as well, so I also created a series template for those too. If you know of someone else who is an expert with templates and design, please feel to ask them. If not, that is okay too. White Arabian Filly usually did templates for rodeo articles, but she has been on the missing Wikipedians list for a year now. Also, if you have any suggestions of your own please free to comment as well, better color or image or whatever. No obligation please I know how busy you can be. I do wish they were not so wide, but don't know how to adjust that. On the bucking horse side of things, per montanabw's suggestion, I am creating an article User:Dawnleelynn/List of famous bucking horses which would be a sideline article to the bucking horse article. Now would be the time to make foundational changes to the table before it gets too long. What's in there now are some examples of horses whose data may not be entirely filled in yet. There is no rush on this either. Thanks! Hope all is well. dawnleelynn(talk) 21:29, 23 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Wow!! You're the greatest!!! When my eyes clear up a bit more, I'll review to see if there's anything I can do to help. Atsme Talk 📧 21:40, 23 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Atsme I'm glad you are pleased. Like I said when you have time....and also when you feel well enough. I forgot to add, last week I created an article for War Paint (horse), one of the greatest bucking horses ever who's also in the ProRodeo Hall of Fame. I thought it was also a good sideline to our bucking horse article cause there aren't really any good ones in existence. By the way. the ProRodeo Hall of Fame has announced its inductees for 2019, two more barrel racers. And a bucking horse named Commotion. [2] Oh, and I will probably create some more bucking horse articles along the way, some short ones but still meaningful. dawnleelynn(talk) 21:57, 23 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Merger proposal

[edit]

Bronco is the targeted article to be merged into this article. Bronco is not well-sourced and has somewhat limited potential for expansion, whereas Bucking horse has far greater potential and many RS to choose from for verifiability. The original meaning for bronco, broncho and bronc was quite simply a horse that bucks, or bucking horse as it referred to free-ranging, wild horses in North America - horses that were not trained under saddle (or broke to ride). Cowboys shortened the word to bronc which has gotten more mileage because it is the terminology used to describe rodeo events; i.e. Bronc riding. Bronco is a Spanish word that translates to mean rough, surly or untamed, and from that came the words bronco, broncho, bronc and roughstock, the latter of which is what stock contractors call their bucking horses and bulls. Over the past century, the word bronco has come to mean so many different things that using it to define bucking horses has become nearly obsolete. We still hear it in old westerns and from city folks who are not familiar with bucking horses or roughstock. I'm proposing that we merge Bronco into this article under the section History, with Etymology as a subsection. Atsme✍🏻📧 02:58, 2 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

NOTE: WikiProject Equine has been notified of this merge proposal. 02:58, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Um stock contractors??  ;) Whatever happens, we do need an etymology and history bit. The bronc, bronco, broncho, is of historic significance. Montanabw(talk) 20:54, 17 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

[edit]
  • Comment: There is a clear difference between the historic bronc and the modern bucking horse. Not sure where Atsme is on this, but my own take is that each article needs to have a different emphasis. Perhaps bucking horse could redirect to a new title, such as rough stock (which is two words, not one. We are not speaking German here... LOL!). It is true that the bucking article describes the action, natural to ALL horses. Hmmm Montanabw(talk) 17:00, 2 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I think bronc and bronco are better suited for use as titles for books and movies. Bronc may also be a person's name. Bronco is the name of a car and a football team. It's a term used to identify rodeo events that utilize bucking horses or roughstock (n) which is actually spelled as one word but I've occasionally seen it spelled as two. I believe "bucking horse" carries more encyclopedic weight because bucking horses are not limited to the Old West. Bucking horses are global, have historical significance as wild or untamed horses that cowboys rounded up to break and use as their mode of transportation and to work livestock. Broncs got broken - bucking horses stopped bucking - but not all of them stopped entirely. Some would buck after they were broke but they weren't broncs. A broke horse could suddenly become a bucking horse with a burr under its saddle. I'll go with whatever consensus determines. Atsme Talk 📧 18:34, 2 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    All I really care about is that the title doesn't get redirected to Ford Bronco (Fought that battle with Mustang). I could live with Bronco being a disambig, with the other spellings as redirects. I think the main issue here is whether we are discussing the behavior in general (which should be at bucking) or untrained horses (still called "broncs", at least in jest)and/or the old-time untrainable "outlaws", and/or modern rodeo bucking horses. I think there's a good case for there to be one article, I just don't have the brainspace to sort it all out. Montanabw(talk) 18:43, 2 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I'll take that as my queue to sing "A little dab will do ya!". 😊 Atsme Talk 📧 19:54, 2 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Mergers and stuff

[edit]

OK. I don't have time to do any heavy lifting, but here's our problem. We now have FOUR articles all on related, but not identical concepts. Bronco (which I did not start but did complete a lot of upgrades on a few years ago) about the horses; Bronc riding, the rodeo sport; bucking, the behavior; and now this article, bucking horse. Plus a ton of articles about wild horse, feral horse, Mustang and so on that are outside this discussion (and need to be). I guess I don't want to take a position on the merge proposal, per se, but I will say that there is duplicative content and I don't want to see my work on the bronco article get tossed in the process (at least, not my good work). The "Bronco" could be come a disambiguation page, but I also fought and won a battle to keep it from being redirected to the article about the motor vehicle. Montanabw(talk) 20:48, 17 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Understood. I see no reason you can't copy/paste the sections you want to move, not unlike what we do with other merges, and simply credit the author. It's a practiced procedure. Atsme Talk 📧 21:16, 17 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I would suggest the following (though note that I am completely out of this world as an English rider

- An article on the sport of riding a bucking horse which includes a section on roughstock/bronco/bucking horses. - An article on the act of bucking - Articles wild/feral horses as before.

After all there are no articles on Dressage horse, or showjumping horse, cutting horse (redirected to cutting (sport)) Lady-shirakawa (talk) 14:04, 3 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Lady-shirakawa, good point about cutting horses. My thoughts - 3 of the 4 above named articles are what comprises Bucking horse. Bronc riding is a standalone sport, but I'm still of the mind that Bronco should be merged into this article in a section titled "History", which basically describes the nomenclature and earliest beginnings of bucking horses in the West. Bucking (like Running) covers more than just a single subject - it covers horses and bulls, whereas Running branches into people, a gait, running dogs and running horses (a little dab will do ya!). Here we should include a section titled "Bucking" (with a template to the main article), and describe some of the physical behavior, causes, genetic predisposition, etc. Bucking horses are global and nondiscriminatory - if it's a horse, it can/will buck - so we should present a global perspective, including the earliest beginnings of bucking horses in various countries and disciplines. Perhaps WP:NOPAGE explains it best. Atsme Talk 📧 17:00, 3 April 2019 (UTC) added 10:28, 4 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Trying to find sources

[edit]

Atsme Hi, I've been trying to find sources for the content in this article that has none. Plus, I have integrated a little bit from my sandbox. I was just looking for a source for the Background section and found that it was copied word for word from this source: Bronco. Oops! I didn't dig in to see where it came from in the version history. I guess I should just pull it right out. I may have something to replace it with from my sandbox... I didn't want to just yank it without giving you a heads up cause I'm sure you have this in your Watchlist. dawnleelynn(talk) 21:05, 6 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Talk:Bucking_horse&oldid=1200418713"