Talk:Bruce Bernard

Changes and Additions

It appears that I have inadvertently violated Wiki's rules by not realising the conflict of interest situation for which I apologise. I am not sure how to go about unpicking all this now. I had wanted to change a few biographical details and also add to the biographical entries for wiki/Bruce Bernard but have now caused a problem. Could you advise ? Thank you Virginia.Verran (talk) 09:58, 13 February 2017 (UTC) Virginia.Verran (talk) 09:58, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

We can undo it to the state it was in before you started, or we can let people look over the edits you have made. That's why I added the COI tag, so people will know it needs checking. There are definitely some problems. Many of your additions are not sourced, some of the language is not neutral, and you quote excessively from his obituary. Why would the article, let alone the lede, need personal reminisces of one of his drinking buddies? This is an encyclopedia article, not a memorial or a facebook page. Meters (talk) 23:32, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

Thank you. In which case why are there inaccuracies in the first attempt at the Wiki page ? All the correct info about Bruce Bernard is on the estate web site online. By the way that quote is not by 'a drinking buddy' but a highly respected art critic. I don't want to go back to that original uncorrectex version and will get somebody else who is impartial to look at it. I will remove the quote as I understand the point made about it not being the right place for it. Virginia.Verran (talk) 16:31, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Anyone you know who you ask to look at the article will also have a conflict of interest, simply by having been asked by you to look at it. The estate web site is a somewhat problematic source. It can be used as a primary source, but only for some material. Reliable, independent published sources are preferred. See WP:RS. I am goin got restore the original version of the page. Please poin tout any errors, and propose any other changes with supporting sources. See WP:EDITREQ Meters (talk) 18:03, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

There are quite a few errors on the Bruce Bernard Wiki page. I have a COI as rep of Estate of Bruce Bernard but would like to propose some important changes. Others could follow but will need citations. There are also many further biographical entries to make but the errors first need fixing. In the obits Bruce Bernard's date of death is incorrect. He died on 30th March. This was incorrectly reported in obits. Can the opening paragraph be changed to : Bruce Bernard /bərˈnɑːrd/[1] (21 March 1928 – 30 March 2000) was an English picture editor, writer and photographer. He was picture editor of the Sunday Times Magazine in its heyday and also at the Independent Magazine for its first four years; he edited many books on art and photography and photographed several influential artists in a career lasting nearly 40 years. Where it mentions Jeffrey Bernard was an art critic, which is incorrect, can this be changed to journalist (the citation clearly states that). Could the entry where it incorrectly says Bruce Bernard 'self curated' his own photographs at the Barbican (which is incorrect) be changed to : In 1994 Bernard curated a major survey of photographs selected from the Hulton-Deutsch Collection (which contains around 15,000,000 photographs) at the Barbican Centre, titled All Human Life. Under 'Personal' can the 'survived by his long-term partner' be removed entirely as this is incorrect and was incorrect in the Times obit (I was his close friend and companion (but not his partner) as was correctly stated in the Guardian obit already cited on the wiki page in question. Thank you.

Virginia.Verran (talk) 12:01, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Please read WP:EDITREQ and follow the instructions for making edit requests. Use the request edit template and only include one clearly defined request per entry. It's difficult for editors to correctly parse long, multi-part edit requests, it's not up to them to determine what wording the requester wants to have included, and it's a pain to have to give multi-part responses. If any of the requests are non trivial and require input from other editors it's a real mess.

1. No I will not change the death date based on nothing but your say so. The source we have in the article says it was 30 January March. Please provide a reliable source showing that it was not 30 January. By the way, claiming that the obit has an error is a concern. That reference is used extensively in this article and if the most basic fact (the death date) is not correct one has to wonder how reliable the source is.
2. I'm not making a blanket change of the first paragraph. Propose the change properly so I can what is being changed. It appears to be unsourced and a bit puffed up. (Why would we need to mention that the paper was in its heyday, for example?)
3. I will change the Jeffrey Bernard occupation from "art critic" to "journalist", but only because I verified that fact myself. Despite what you claim, the citation certainly does not clearly state that he was not an art critic. It merely says he was a columnist.
4. I will not change the Barbican exhibit information (except to remove the "self-curated") without to support calling it a major exhibit, or that it was from the 15,000,000-photo Hulton-Deutsch Collection, or that it was called "All Human Life".
5. I will remove all mention of you completely. I'm not sure if that is what you intended, but we don't mention people's companions. Meters (talk) 00:12, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

I actually changed "art critic" to "columnist" rather than "journalist" sinc ethat seems more accurate. Meters (talk) 00:17, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

~~ Changes and Additions ~~ Thank you for removing the information in the personal section. It is important that this Wiki page is factual as you will agree I am sure. That is all I am trying to do. Please can you provide a citation for the intro where you say he photographed socialites ? He did not. If you read the Guardian obituary on the Wiki page that is cited it clearly says that he was a Picture Editor, Writer and Photographer. He was mostly known as a Picture Editor and that is not listed at the moment in the opening paragraph. Also, if these are the rules, could you provide a citation for the exhibition of Bruce Bernard's own photographs at the Barbican Centre ? This show did not happen. It was a show called All Human Life as I corrected but you have disallowed : Great photographs from the Hulton Deutsch collection : [exhibition catalogue]. Author: Bernard, Bruce. ISBN: 9780946372317 Personal Author: Bernard, Bruce.Publication Date: 1994. Publication Information: Barbican Art Gallery, 1994. Added Corporate Author: Hulton-Deutsch Collection. I will try to learn how to cite this properly but it seems some things can have citations and others not. I think what you might mean is the show of his own photographs at the Tate Gallery in 2002. You have corrected me and said he died in January ? I am sure you have just made a mistake which is forgivable. He died in March. I was there I should know. It is clearly stated in the Guardian Obit that you cite in the notes (although it was the 30th not 29th and that was my fault at the time giving the wrong date). I will leave it as it is. Thank you. Virginia.Verran (talk) 09:43, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

I'm not going to wade through all of this text. If you want to suggest changes, do so properly as I have already asked you to. I didn't add the info about the Barbican show. It was in the article already. I simply undid your changes. And as I read it, it does not claim that he was showing his own photos in in the exhibit. Meters (talk) 20:45, 19 February 2017 (UTC)