Jump to content

Talk:Brad Mehldau/GA1

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

GA Review

[edit]
GA toolbox
Reviewing

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Viriditas (talk · contribs) 03:45, 8 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox

[edit]
Resolved
Another person very recently added that. I've replaced it with the image that was there before, which has a copyright statement. EddieHugh (talk) 09:04, 8 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
As point above: now replaced with date. EddieHugh (talk) 09:04, 8 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The question is, 'what constitutes "active"?' He toured and recorded with someone else in 1989, but may have played in Cobb's band before that. I think of it as '"late 1980s" is accurate but not precise; giving an exact year would be precise but possibly not accurate'. EddieHugh (talk) 09:04, 8 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Good question. On Nir Felder, I determined that he became active in 2005 since he began gigging in NYC after graduation from Berklee that year, and I believe he also says he became active in 2005 in several articles or interviews (going from memory, I could be wrong). But, personally, I'm just curious what is best practice in our music articles? Do we provide precise dates or estimates? For me, "active" for a musician generally means performing professionally after graduation, but not always. For example, I believe Gabrielle Goodman was gigging professionally while still in school, and so was Kurt Elling, who had played jazz clubs for years before 1995. However, I listed Elling's activity start date as 1995 because that was the year he produced his first professional recording for Blue Note, and he talks about that year being special for his career. So you can see, I have not been very consistent with determining activity dates. Perhaps I'll bring this up with the music project. Thanks, anyway. Viriditas (talk) 23:24, 8 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

[edit]
Resolved
  • Mehldau studied music at The New School from 1988 to around 1993.
    • Does the reader have to know the dates he studied in the lead? You may want to look at other GA/FA articles to see how they handle discussing education in the lead section. WP:LEAD may give you some insight as well. It's notable that he attended The New School. It's not so significant to the reader (in the lead at least) that he was there from 1988 to 1993. I have seen good lead sections mention the date of graduation, if only to provide a chronological context to their post-education career. Although it isn't a GA or FA-Class article, you may want to see how I handled it in the lead section of Kurt Elling. In that lead, I focused more on things rather than dates until it came time to discuss career milestones, at which point I used them sparingly. YMMV. Viriditas (talk) 06:42, 8 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • composing orchestral pieces on 2010's Highway Rider
    • It's unclear if you are talking about the song or the album. If you mean the album, then italicize it like you did with Largo up above it. If it's the song, use quotation marks. Viriditas (talk) 07:14, 8 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Again, these are very recent edits by another person. I've now sorted out Highway Rider and removed TNS dates while maintaining some flow by adding a summary of a bit that was in an earlier version of the lead. Thanks, EddieHugh (talk) 09:04, 8 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Early life

[edit]
Resolved
  • This section reads well. There are a few minor issues:
    • His family moved to West Hartford, Connecticut when Mehldau was 10.
      • In American English, city and states are treated as parentheticals. Exceptions include possessives and compounds. In this instance, there should be a comma after Connecticut. Viriditas (talk) 00:06, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Done. EddieHugh (talk) 08:59, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • Mehldau was able to assimilate his two principal influences on piano up to that point – Wynton Kelly and McCoy Tyner – and began to develop his own sound
      • This structure interrupts the flow and stopped me from reading. Would it be easier for the reader like this: "Mehldau was able to assimilate the music of Wynton Kelly and McCoy Tyner, his two principal influences on piano up to that point, and began to develop his own sound." Just wondering what you think... Viriditas (talk) 00:13, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That's fine. Done. EddieHugh (talk) 08:59, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Later life and career

[edit]
  • He led his own trio from at least 1992, including for performances at New York's Village Gate in that year.'
    • I've read this sentence several times now, and it doesn't read very well. The phrasing of "including for performances" sounds stilted and reads as if he played four performances. I'm also seeing more hedging, this time with "at least 1992". When did he first lead his own trio? Putting aside that question for a moment, we can say confidently that "In 1992, he performed at New York's Village Gate leading his own trio." Viriditas (talk) 01:07, 10 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I haven't seen a definitive, reliable source for when he started leading a trio (in any case, and similarly to above, what would count as the first occasion?). "In 1992, he performed at New York's Village Gate leading his own trio" is accurate, but doesn't provide a context/relevance for the reader. I've tried "He led his own trio from at least 1992, when he played at New York's Village Gate." EddieHugh (talk) 19:49, 10 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • His performances with one, saxophonist Perico Sambeat, included a tour of Europe early in 1993,[15] and Mehldau's first released recordings as co-leader, from a May concert in Barcelona.
Simpler. Done. EddieHugh (talk) 08:59, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I also recommend adding a red link to the first instance of Perico Sambeat. Not only do we have several references to it already on en, but we have three full articles on de, ca, and es—all waiting to be translated into English. As editors, it helps to be mindful of not only what we have, but what we plan to have. Adding red links to notable topics that can easily be created from interlanguage links is good practice. Viriditas (talk) 09:04, 10 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Done. EddieHugh (talk) 19:49, 10 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • This association began in 1993, but Mehldau had been a stand-in in Redman's band in 1992.
    • Odd voicing, wording, and tense here. Based on the previous sentence, I expected something like: "Their association began in 1993, but the pianist had played with Redman's band as early as 1992." I'm sure you can come up with something. Viriditas (talk) 09:20, 10 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Changed to "This association began in 1993, but they had played together for a short period the previous year." EddieHugh (talk) 19:49, 10 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redman and his band attracted a lot of attention, including for the 1994 album Moodswing, which aided Mehldau's profile.
    • Why "Redman and his band"? Would eliminating the "and" with "Redman's band" say the same thing? Also, try to avoid adverbs and terms like "a lot". "Redman's band attracted attention" works fine, but if you want to say "increased attention" that's fine, too. The "including for the 1994 album" part sounds clunky. How about, "Redman's band attracted attention, with the release of their 1994 album Moodswing aiding Mehldau's profile." Viriditas (talk) 09:20, 10 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
At the time, the main focus was on Redman; the other band members got more attention as a result. "Redman and his band" is therefore more accurate. Changed to "Redman and his band attracted attention, with their 1994 album Moodswing also aiding Mehldau's profile." EddieHugh (talk) 19:49, 10 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Mehldau graduated from The New School around 1993.
Thanks for finding those. I have used the last one. EddieHugh (talk) 08:59, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the following year Mehldau recorded his first album as sole leader: Introducing Brad Mehldau, for Warner Bros.
    • I guess this is fine, but it stopped me from reading, interrupting the flow. Wouldn't it read better if you used commas instead, something like: "In the following year, Mehldau recorded Introducing Brad Mehldau for Warner Bros., his first album as sole leader." Viriditas (talk) 03:22, 11 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Lovely. Changed. EddieHugh (talk) 12:53, 11 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Just trying to sidestep "he", "his" and "Mehldau" being close together. EddieHugh (talk) 13:10, 15 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • This album was chosen by Fordham as his jazz CD of the year, commenting that, although it...
    • It reads smoother (and has more impact) to simply state "This album was chosen by Fordham as his jazz CD of the year." Period. Then, start the next sentence with the following (or similar): "[Although it] might seem to some a little introverted, and certainly distinctly classical in flavour," he wrote, "the intricacy and counter-melodic richness of a great pianist is astonishingly balanced against the more direct and open eloquence a great vocalist might bring." Viriditas (talk) 09:23, 15 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Changed for the better. EddieHugh (talk) 13:10, 15 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the summer, Mehldau spent a few months in Germany, developing his interest in its language, literature, and music.
Changed "In the summer" to "That summer", to retain some contrast in structure with the following sentence while being more specific about the summer.EddieHugh (talk) 13:10, 15 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Mehldau's interest in figures of 19th century German Romanticism, including Brahms, Schubert, and Schumann, influenced his first solo piano release, Elegiac Cycle, which was recorded in 1999 and broke the sequence of trio recordings under his name.
    • It sometimes helps the reader to break these long sentences up. By doing so, you can also add emphasis on certain phrasing. For example, "Mehldau's interest in figures of 19th century German Romanticism, including Brahms, Schubert, and Schumann, influenced his first solo piano release. Recorded in 1999, Elegiac Cycle broke the sequence of trio recordings under his name." Of course, there are any number of ways to do this. Viriditas (talk) 09:39, 15 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That's possible, but there is a faint implication in the current version that the interest in Romanticism went beyond that one recording. As that is the case, I prefer to leave the hint in place. EddieHugh (talk) 13:10, 15 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the same year, Art of the Trio 4: Back at the Vanguard was recorded and released, featuring more performances from the Village Vanguard, this time of standards, Mehldau originals, plus Miles Davis' "Solar" and another version of "Exit Music (For a Film)".
    • Same thing here: "Art of the Trio 4: Back at the Vanguard was recorded and released in the same year, presenting more performances from the Village Vanguard. The recording features standards, Mehldau originals, Miles Davis' 'Solar', and another version of 'Exit Music (For a Film)'." Viriditas (talk) 09:47, 15 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. I tend to put things into one sentence to avoid putting the same source in twice. Changed. EddieHugh (talk) 13:10, 15 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • A solo piano recording from a 2003 concert, Live in Tokyo, showed greater lyricism appearing in Mehldau's playing, and was released in 2004 as his first album for Nonesuch Records, an imprint of Warner Bros.
    • Do you need the word "appearing" here? Also two sentences might work better: "A solo piano recording from a 2003 concert, Live in Tokyo, showed greater lyricism in Mehldau's playing. It was released in 2004 as his first album for Nonesuch Records, an imprint of Warner Bros." Viriditas (talk) 10:15, 15 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"Appearing" as in 'beginning to appear', rather than being a single instance. I'm not really convinced that the comment on lyricism is accurate, but will leave it in for now. EddieHugh (talk) 13:10, 15 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
See Places, mentioned earlier. EddieHugh (talk) 13:10, 15 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • During 2010–11 Mehldau held Carnegie Hall's Richard and Barbara Debs Composer's Chair, the first jazz musician to do so.
    • I realize you are trying to paraphrase from the source, which led to this wording, but try something else besides "to do so", which sounds terribly informal: "Mehldau held Carnegie Hall's Richard and Barbara Debs Composer's Chair from 2010 to 2011, becoming the first jazz musician to hold the position." Viriditas (talk) 11:00, 15 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Informal or formal? The "held" → "hold" put me off wording like that, but an improvement should be possible. EddieHugh (talk) 13:10, 15 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • In 2013 Mehldau began touring with drummer Mark Guiliana as a synthesizer-oriented duo that was given the portmanteau name "Mehliana".
My dictionary lists "portmanteau word", so "portmanteau name" should be possible and not too much of a mystery for the reader. EddieHugh (talk) 13:10, 15 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Inspiration, influences, and playing style

[edit]
Resolved
  • Mehldau cites pianists Larry Goldings (for "his full approach to the instrument") and Hays (for adding alternative harmonies to the set one), as well as guitarist Bernstein (for showing the value of playing melodic phrases instead of just rehearsed patterns) as direct influences on his own playing, in addition to Jesse Davis, Kurt Rosenwinkel, David Sánchez, Mark Turner, and the other members of his own trio.
    • That's a huge sentence! I think it works in its current form, but that's because I'm slightly biased as a jazz fan. I wonder if it would still work for non-jazz fans, such as a general reader not quite familiar with the topic. Personally, I like it. Viriditas (talk) 01:33, 12 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Compositions

[edit]
Resolved
  • Mehldau himself indicated that some of his compositions address a specific need, such as integrating a particular rhythm into his trio, while others emerge from something he has played while improvising. In the latter case, "The opening is always easy for me, the middle gets more difficult, more of an intellectual process, more trial and error at work, and the end is always difficult for me."
    • The way the quote from Mehldau is setup here relies on attribution established in the previous sentence. Then, when the reader finally comes to "In the latter case, "The opening is always easy for me.." the "me" sounds odd because it is so far from the "Mehldau himself indicated" attribution 30 words back. As the source shows, Mehldau is in conversation with musician (and writer) Mike Brannon about how he writes and arranges new music. To make this easier to read, something like this might work better: "In terms of composing new music while improvising, Mehldau compared the process to a game of chess, telling Mike Brannon, 'The opening is always easy for me, the middle gets more difficult, more of an intellectual process, more trial and error at work, and the end is always difficult for me.'" I think it would also help to clarify why the end is so difficult for him, as I think it speaks to what many artists go through in the creative process to end a piece. You could paraphrase what he tells Brannon: "The idea is to end it but leave an opening in there, kind of an escape duct of possibility. All the songs I love have that open-ended feeling, like they never end." For me, this is very significant, as I find (speaking as the reviewer only) that the best contemporary works of art (music, film, literature, whatever) have this open-ended quality, and there's an enormous amount of literature supporting this observation. Mehldau seems to be making a very profound statement about composition here, and I think it is worth expanding upon. Viriditas (talk) 11:29, 11 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Rephrased a bit and explicitly included the chess comparison, which helps. I paraphrased his comments on endings, but felt that the last word on it should be his. Gives finality to the ending(?). EddieHugh (talk) 20:20, 13 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Personal life

[edit]
Resolved
  • This section is OK, but the readability of sentences that are broken up with citations is poor. For example, this sentence is broken up by four sources: They met in 1997,[86] and have three children,[13] the eldest of which is daughter Eden,[23] who was born in 2001.[3] This is not easy on the eyes and chops up the flow. I feel like I'm reading it in a halting, robotic voice. There are ways to prevent this (such as using Harvard refs and selected quotes in the citation) but it goes beyond the scope of the review. Please, think of the reader! :) Viriditas (talk) 09:45, 10 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Improved it a bit by cutting the name (probably better in BLP anyway), allowing one source to be used for the second part. EddieHugh (talk) 19:49, 10 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Influence

[edit]
Resolved
  • This section is OK, but a bit too heavy on the quotes and not enough paraphrasing. Then again, the quotes are important, so I can understand the reluctance to paraphrase. Viriditas (talk) 01:15, 12 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Honors

[edit]
Resolved
  • Mehldau was winner of Down Beat's Readers Poll piano award...
Changed to "won". EddieHugh (talk) 18:14, 13 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • The citation for this is off. We don't generally link to top-level search indexes. Instead of titling it "Search Results", call it "The DownBeat Readers Poll Archive" and link to it from here. Viriditas (talk) 20:57, 11 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I wondered about the best thing to do... I considered putting a separate link for each year, as each is on a different DB page; thanks for the suggested solution, which I've applied. EddieHugh (talk) 18:14, 13 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Discography

[edit]
Resolved

Nominator should decide on whether to split this out per WP:MAG and MOS:WORKS. See criteria for commentary

I've split several other bios in the way that you suggest. I'll do the same for this one, adding only a link to the new page, as every recording is mentioned in the main text, so a select list is not required. EddieHugh (talk) 12:53, 11 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Now split. EddieHugh (talk) 16:06, 11 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Srolanh See.Say. 13:07, 10 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

References

[edit]
Resolved
  • Kennedy, Gary W. "Mehldau, Brad". The New Grove Dictionary of Jazz (2nd edition). Grove Music Online. Oxford Music Online. Oxford University Press. Retrieved February 9, 2014. (Subscription required.)
[edit]
Resolved

Criteria

[edit]

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

  1. Is it reasonably well written?
    A. Prose is "clear and concise", without copyvios, or spelling and grammar errors:
    "Later life and career" section still under review...
    Done.
    "Compositions" section has one quote that could be helped with further attribution...
    Done.
    "Honors" section needs a copyedit and one citation needs a new title and URL...
    Done.
    Although this is beyond the scope of the review, in the future, the nominator should try to eliminate word repetition, as certain words are used too often. For example, forms of the word "comment/commented/commenting" are used nine times, while the word "interest" is used five times.
    B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:
    MOS:WORKS concern with discography list size handled below under "Focused" criterion 3B
    Concern handled by nominator.
  2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
    A. Has an appropriate reference section:
    B. Citation to reliable sources where necessary:
    C. No original research:
  3. Is it broad in its coverage?
    A. Major aspects:
    B. Focused:
    Per WP:MAG, which is a project-level version of MOS:WORKS, and more specifically MOS:MUSIC, "If the discography of an artist, group or work becomes disproportionately large in relation to the rest of the article, it should be split into a subpage list". Personally, I don't mind the current discography, but I suspect the music project would recommend splitting this out. It may be wise to ask them. In any case, I will leave the decision to the nominator. Please see the contents of Category:Jazz discographies for relevant examples. If a split is desired, a recommendation for how to proceed moving forward can be found here. Viriditas (talk) 03:40, 11 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    Completed by nominator.
  4. Is it neutral?
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. Is it stable?
    No edit wars, etc:
    No edit wars, but changes ongoing. Article looks stable.
  6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
    A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:
    File:Mehldauheadshot.jpg appears to lack either a free or non-free fair use rationale, and looks like it may have been erroneously uploaded to Commons. Please confirm the copyright status.
    Problem solved
    B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
  7. Overall:
    Pass or Fail:
    Pass. Suggestions for improvement are located in the "Later life and career" section and in the criterion 1A review section. Viriditas (talk)
Thank you for the detailed review and improvements. EddieHugh (talk) 13:10, 15 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Talk:Brad_Mehldau/GA1&oldid=1136576146"