Talk:Born in the U.S.A./GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Nominator: Zmbro (talk · contribs) 14:59, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Lazman321 (talk · contribs) 21:31, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

I'll take this one. Bug me if I don't comment within the next few days. Lazman321 (talk) 21:31, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

1 - Well written

1a - Clear and concise prose

Suggestions listed down below. Feel free to address them as I work through the article. Lazman321 (talk) 00:52, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Note: One thing I intended to do but got distracted with life was read through the rest of Steven Hyden's book and add stuff if necessary (I had about half of the book done before stopping). If it's alright with you I'm going to do that before you're done with the review. I apologize if this is annoying but I started adding his book content back in like November and after no one picking the GAN up after six months I just moved on, but I'd still like to see if his book has any other good content (which I'm sure it does). I hope that's alright. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 17:08, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Hyden discusses the album's impact on Springsteen's career and influence on other artists at length so expect the legacy section to lengthen. Again, I'm sorry if this causes annoyance, I just want the article to be the best it can be. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 18:00, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

That's fine. Anything to improve this article is welcome. I can hold off on reviewing the legacy section until your finished expanding it. Lazman321 (talk) 23:10, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Lead

• "...originated from the same demo tape that yielded Springsteen's previous album..." to "...originated from the demo tape for Springsteen's previous album..."

• Removed 'same' but kept "that yielded" because 'for' to me sounds like not enough – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 03:28, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

• "...while others were written after that album's release." to "...while others were written afterward."

• Done

• "...The cover photograph of Springsteen's behind against a backdrop..." to "...The cover photograph of Springsteen turned from the camera against a backdrop..."

• How about "...Springsteen from behind..."? – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 03:28, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

• "...the E Street Band supported the album on the Born in the U.S.A. Tour." to "...the E Street Band supported the album with the Born in the U.S.A. Tour."

• Bands and artists go on tour. Albums can be supported with singles/videos/etc. but artists themselves go on tour. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 03:20, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Well, given how the sentence is constructed, the suggestion still stands. Lazman321 (talk) 03:24, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

• "Nevertheless, retrospective assessments consider Born in the U.S.A. one of the best albums of Springsteen...of all time, appearing on such lists by Rolling Stone and NME" to "Born in the U.S.A. has ranked by publications such as Rolling Stone and NME one of the best albums of Springsteen...of all time."

• Changed to "In later decades, publications such as Rolling Stone and NME rank Born in the U.S.A. one of the best albums..." – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 03:28, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Background

• "which affected him more and inspired the writing..." to "which in turn inspired the writing..."

• Done

• The footnote could be incorporated into the body of the article.

• Done

• "...the lyrics and music of "Vietnam" and used the film's title..." to "...the lyrics and music of "Vietnam", using the film's title..."

• Done

• "...demoed the track and the others he had written during the period in the bedroom..." to "...demoed tracks he had written during that period in the bedroom..."

• Done

Recording history

• "Springsteen subsequently wrote Summer another song, 'Protection', and recorded a version with the E Street Band." - version of what? "Protection"?

• Yes, clarified

• "...he considered releasing another solo acoustic album before scrapping the idea." to "...he considered but ultimately dismissed releasing another solo acoustic album."

• Done

• "...should begin with 'Born in the U.S.A.' and end with 'My Hometown', and include 'Working on the Highway'..." to "...should begin with "Born in the U.S.A.", end with 'My Hometown', and include 'Working on the Highway'...."

• Done

• "With Springsteen still unsatisfied..." to "With Springsteen still unsatisfied with the album..."

• Done

Question for you: Do you think I went overboard with the excess song titles? I feel like it's a little much for WP. If so I can remove them or add some to a footnote. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 03:37, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

I did notice a lot of track titles in the recording section. Perhaps it's a bit much, but my concerns about them are relatively minor. I'll leave it up to your discretion on what to do with them. Lazman321 (talk) 04:09, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

It'll likely receive pushback if I choose to take this to FAC so I went ahead and removed some and condensed others into a note. I kept the main ones that are repeated elsewhere but removed others that were one and dones. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 15:49, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Music and lyrics

• "...rock and roll song, driven by synthesizer..." to "...rock and roll song driven by a synthesizer..."

• Done

• "...several have also noted the song's supposed 'jingoism'." to "...several critics also noted how the song could be misconstrued in favor of jingoism."

• Done

• "...said the song 'steeped in countrified..." to "...said the song was 'steeped in countrified..."

• Done

• "...is a minimalist rock ballad featuring synthesizer." to "...is a minimalist rock ballad featuring a synthesizer."

• Done

• "The song's narrator is similar to other tracks on Nebraska..." to "The song's narrator is similar to the one on Nebraska..."

• Changed to "the ones" as in this case the sentence is talking about Nebraska the album, on which there were many narrators – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 16:05, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

• "... in which the heroine expresses an obsessive and uncontrollable desire for the narrator." - I guess not related exactly to the article's writing, but having listened to the song and looked at its lyrics, are you sure this is accurate?

• Yea you're right that definitely should be flipped. Fixed. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 16:05, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

• "The narrator's girlfriend's former passion is lost and turned to indifference." to "The narrator's girlfriend has lost her passion and turned to indifference."

• Done

• "...dance-rock song led by synthesizer." to "...dance-rock song led by a synthesizer."

• Done

• "a folk ballad driven by synthesizer." to "a folk ballad driven by a synthesizer."

• Done; Note: I intended to have these instances mean synth the instrument itself and not a specific one. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 16:05, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

• "...containing themes of centered on working-class life..." to "...with themes centered on working-class life..."

• Done

Artwork

• "...a former photographer for Rolling Stone and Vanity Fair magazines." to "...formerly of the magazines Rolling Stone and Vanity Fair."
• Perhaps move the sentence "The cover was designed by Andrea Klein." to near the beginning.
• "...the picture of my face' and there was no..." to "...the picture of my face' and that there was no..."
• "The cover is considered iconic and appeared on..." to "The cover is considered iconic, having appeared on..."

2 - Verifiable with no original research

2a - Identifiable list of references

There is indeed a list of references that follows guidelines. ✓ Pass Lazman321 (talk) 01:47, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

2b - Reliable sources

How are Classic Rock Review, uDiscoverMusic, and Super Deluxe Edition reliable? Classic Rock Review and Super Deluxe Edition have no credentials as far as I'm aware, and uDiscoverMusic is operated by the record label Universal Music Group, making it a poor source for music critique. Besides that, all the other sources, including the books, appear to be fine. Lazman321 (talk) 02:50, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

a. I had previously used CRR on Born to Run and it passed through the source review on that article's FAC. The website has an editor-in-chief, Ric Albano, who is a web developer, musician, and writer in his own right. It looks like he founded River of Rock Network which operates other websites such as Keystone Rock Review and Roots Rock Review. It doesn't mention other writers but it has an editor-in-chief so I think that would mean it's ok for reliability.

b. Removed uDM.

c. Super Deluxe Edition also has an editor-in-chief, Paul Sinclair. In my times using the website, he gets his information accurate; when I do comparisons with other sources (in this case Springsteen's website), the info is always accurate. The website only covers reissues of older music releases so I've never found it to be a problem. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 16:30, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Well if it managed to pass through FAC, I guess I can let it slide. ✓ Pass Lazman321 (talk) 23:22, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

2c - No original research

Will be conducting a spotcheck here. Lazman321 (talk) 23:08, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Normally, for articles with at least 100 citations, I would try to check at least 50 citations to gain a good overview of what text-source discrepancies need to be addressed. However, given how little I actually found this time around and your prior experience with music articles, I feel I don't need to go beyond 25. I found, like, one or two discrepancies, and they weren't even that major. ✓ Pass Lazman321 (talk) 01:42, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

2d - No copyright violations

No copyright violations found during spotchecks. ✓ Pass Lazman321 (talk) 01:43, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

5 - Stable

No content disputes or edit wars appear to be occurring. ✓ Pass Lazman321 (talk) 03:52, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

6 - Illustrated by media

6a - Copyright tags

The copyright tags on each of the images are valid. The one I was most suspicious of, File:Springsteen 05051981 01 200.jpg, does appear to be legit after some digging into the user. ✓ Pass Lazman321 (talk) 04:40, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

6b - Relevant media

All the images are relevant to the article, with most being of relevant personnel. Perhaps it would be useful to include an excerpt of a song from the album to illustrate its sound, but I won't require it. ✓ Pass Lazman321 (talk) 04:44, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Added :-) – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 16:48, 5 January 2025 (UTC)