Talk:Blood on the Risers

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Military history: North America / United States Start‑class

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Songs

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Lyrics

In the 6th verse, it should be "medicos" not medic corps. It's a colloquialism, just added to make the patter/beat fit. I'll try to find something more authoritative than my husband the history buff, but here's a post from the History Channel Blog:

http://boards.history.com/topic/Band-Of-Brothers/101st-Song/300012450 Ileanadu (talk) 06:42, 3 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Shouldn't the lyrics of the first line read "He was just a rookie trooper and he surely shook with fright. " and not "shook with pride?" :

http://www.west-point.org/greimanj/west_point/songs/bloodontherisers.htm

demosthenes247 (talk) 10:06, 29 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the issue of "Gory" vs. "Glory" in the refrain, at West Point in 1975, we cadets sang it as "Gory" exclusively throughout the song. Wrightwiki (talk) 17:03, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Should the lyrics not be listed in the article? If they were, it appears someone has removed them. Best regardsTheBaron0530 (talk) 14:57, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

We can't include the lyrics unless we can prove they are in the public domain.— Diannaa (talk) 22:38, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

diagram

would a diagram of the incident described be desirable? Arlo James Barnes 02:40, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean? Justanotherguy54 (talk) 14:12, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In words, the situation can be summarised as: 'a rookie paratrooper whose parachute fails to deploy. This results in him falling to his death. Each verse describes the man's death and the subsequent condition of his body in the aftermath.' What would it look like, visually, if such an incident occurred in combat, or happened elsewhere during wartime? Commuter3 (talk) 07:39, 15 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Copyright problem removed

Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: copyright song lyrics. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)

For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, providing it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. — Diannaa (talk) 14:35, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to ask this now; has there been any evidence that has come out confirming or denying the copyright status of the lyrics? Even if this comment does not reference the lyrics, this still seems like an appropriate area to ask this question. Tajemina (talk) 17:07, 29 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Per Diane's comment in the above "Lyrics" section, we'd need evidence that the lyrics are in the public domain. It's possible that the copyright has expired, but we err on the side of caution with copyright. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 18:29, 29 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Finding sources

I'm having trouble finding references to back up material on this page. I was going to cite this article from 2019, but on closer inspection the source is actually plagiarizing language that has been on Wikipedia since 2015: https://www.military.com/video/wwii-vet-sings-blood-risers Recognitor (talk) 17:05, 17 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

For notability requirements, add this reference by a Vietnam commander:

"In response to a 1967 New Yorker article by Jonathan Schell, General William Westmoreland, the commander of all allied forces in Vietnam, rationalized the need for gallows humor: “Soldiers have employed gallows humor through the ages. What paratrooper, for example, singing the drinking song ‘Blood on the Risers,’ really revels in the gory death of the man he is singing about? Gallows humor is, after all, merely a defense mechanism for men engaged in perilous and distasteful duties.”"

http://www.wcwonline.org/pdf/paid/0409.pdf Recognitor (talk) 17:32, 17 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Susan Gurwell Talley, an author of the book “Never Give Up the Jump” (2023; OCLC: 1355221256; ISBN: 978-1-63758-429-3) identifies the authors of Blood on the Risers to be a J.D. Kelly Jr. and a Herbert Malloy who wrote the lyrics in 1943 at Camp Blanding, Florida, in honor of a Joseph Singletary. She provides as evidence a printed copy of the lyrics found in the possessions of her father, George L. Gurwell of the 508th Parachute Infantry Regiment. The lyrics are titled “Johnny Paratrooper”. A footnote explains that a Rick Smith identified the authorship, year of creation, and location. Here are the relevant portions of the text:

Singing was always part of these festivities. Two 508th troopers penned the words to the now-famous “Johnny Paratrooper.” Full of black humor and sung with (often drunken) bravado, the words could be all too real, as green paratroopers would soon find out. We discovered the version below, printed on the back of a regimental boxing program, dated January 11, 1943, among Dad’s documents. It is the earliest copy we know of, reproduced with all original capitalization and punctuation intact. The 82nd Airborne still uses the lyrics as a cadence when marching today. The song is also known as “Blood on the Risers,” sung to the tune of “Battle Hymn of the Republic”…

(photo)

“Johnny Paratrooper,” AKA “Blood on the Risers.” January 11, 1943. Gurwell Collection.

(lyrics)

Footnote: Rick Smith from 508th PIR HqHq, Reenacted, has located a document from the estate of First Sgt. (later Lt) J.D. Kelley, Jr. that attributes the authorship of the song to Kelley and Herbert Malloy, in 1943, at Camp Blanding, FL, in honor of Joseph Singletary. Records from the 508th indeed place Kelley at Camp Blanding in early 1943. (Source: daughter Trish McLoud).

If true, that would put a bound on the creation date to 1943 or before. I hope this helps clarify the copyright status of the lyrics. Balta katei 14:30, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Adding lyrics back

Should the lyrics be added back? This says its a “copyright violation” but it provides no context or link Special:MobileDiff/973929328 Justanotherguy54 (talk) 12:09, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Added it back since the IP’s claim seems to root from a page on “Military Fandom” which says “J. H. Kight Copyright 1943” but I have researched and can’t find anything about a jh kight Justanotherguy54 (talk) 13:03, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You have it backwards. On Wikipedia we assume material is copyright unless proven otherwise. I have removed the lyrics. — Diannaa (talk) 14:03, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oh I see, my bad. Would this search be of any use? Though this says “How can I find out who owns a copyright?

We can provide you with the information available in our records. A search of registrations, renewals, and recorded transfers of ownership made before 1978 requires a manual search of our files. Upon request, our staff will search our records, see Circular 4 Copyright Office fees. There is no fee if you conduct a search in person at the Copyright Office.” and “Do you have a list of songs or movies in the public domain?

No, we neither compile nor maintain such a list. A search of our records, however, may reveal whether a particular work is no longer under copyright protection.” so I suppose this would be the only real way? Justanotherguy54 (talk) 18:12, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I guess that would be the only way. Regardless, Wikipedia is not a lyrics repository. See WP:LYRICS for details. — Diannaa (talk) 20:28, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Glory, glory, what a hell of a way to die" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Glory, glory, what a hell of a way to die has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 October 4 § Glory, glory, what a hell of a way to die until a consensus is reached. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 01:31, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]