Talk:Bird trapping
 | A fact from Bird trapping appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 26 August 2010 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
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Structure
[edit]The current country based sectioning does not seem to be very suitable. The typical classification is based on whether the technique is lethal or non-lethal with examination of applications and some species specific approaches, historical and legal notes. Any objections to a restructure ? Shyamal (talk) 06:57, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
- Have gone ahead and made some changes. Shyamal (talk) 10:35, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
- Shyamal went ahead and made some changes. And most of these seem to be fine. However, to list bird lime as a non-lethal method of capturing little birds is disingenuous. Further, deleting country-specific situations and problems (without any discussion) impoverishes the article. Many WP articles do specifically address individual situations in various countries, and eliminating such information on the claim that it is not "very suitable" does a disservice to the interested reader and violates WP's practice. Malta has a larger paragraph than the others for a number of reasons: critical step in the flyway, strong local traditions, EU - Malta conflict, and significant international attention. I have no objection to a lethal - non-lethal sectioning as implemented (as long as the bird lime problem is addressed), but also suggest to keep verified information concerning country-specifics; this can be done in a separate section such as "Bird trapping in specific countries".Ekem (talk) 22:46, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
- I have renamed the sections to make the distinction on the need. Please feel free to make the changes you think are needed, but it would be good to use book and journal sources rather than newspapers or other websites as sources (WP:RS). I agree that any non-lethal method can be used for hunting so the classification is tricky but bird-lime is used in trapping for research as it causes little physical harm to the bird when used carefully. There really was too much about Malta and I am not sure if that is particularly important since there is considerable hunting around the world. There are lots of ethnic hunting communities that are in conflict with modern laws and perhaps that contrast is reflected more strongly in Europe, however throughout the tropics there are tribes where bird trapping is a way of life. A case from Brazil is already added but you can see another in : Grubh BR & PB Shekar (1968). "Blacknecked Stork (Xenorhynchus asiaticus) and the marriage of Mirshikars". Newsletter for Birdwatchers 8 (3): 1–2. http://www.archive.org/stream/NLBW9#page/n2/mode/1up As for the removal of country boundaries, I think the use of country sections tends to have a very divisive effect on articles that will disrupt the structure and make it unreadable especially since every country will have laws that can be interpreted for usage against bird trapping/hunting. Shyamal (talk) 02:37, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
- The article in its current form is misleading as it places an emphasis on methods for research and is suggesting that bird trapping is primarily done by ornithologists; the reader is led to believe that live trapping is ok as they let the bird go again. In reality, live trapping commonly is the prelude to the death of the bird. Various nettings, use of decoys in multiple forms, birdlime are all in the arsenal of trappers (and poachers) who take a significant toll on bird populations, much more than ornithologists. Equating modern poaching and illegal commercial trapping for restaurants with traditional ethnic hunting is a stretch.Ekem (talk) 13:34, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
- I agree that the difference between "trapping" and its use for "hunting" (whether for sustenance or commerce) seems to be blurred here and the latter may need a separate article. (Calling for wider views) Shyamal (talk) 04:45, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
With recent all the changes the article has become a mess (and with Jonathan Franzen and the BBC eliminated, Malta sounds like a great place to be for birds).Ekem (talk) 04:04, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
- I agree that the difference between "trapping" and its use for "hunting" (whether for sustenance or commerce) seems to be blurred here and the latter may need a separate article. (Calling for wider views) Shyamal (talk) 04:45, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
- The article in its current form is misleading as it places an emphasis on methods for research and is suggesting that bird trapping is primarily done by ornithologists; the reader is led to believe that live trapping is ok as they let the bird go again. In reality, live trapping commonly is the prelude to the death of the bird. Various nettings, use of decoys in multiple forms, birdlime are all in the arsenal of trappers (and poachers) who take a significant toll on bird populations, much more than ornithologists. Equating modern poaching and illegal commercial trapping for restaurants with traditional ethnic hunting is a stretch.Ekem (talk) 13:34, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
- I have renamed the sections to make the distinction on the need. Please feel free to make the changes you think are needed, but it would be good to use book and journal sources rather than newspapers or other websites as sources (WP:RS). I agree that any non-lethal method can be used for hunting so the classification is tricky but bird-lime is used in trapping for research as it causes little physical harm to the bird when used carefully. There really was too much about Malta and I am not sure if that is particularly important since there is considerable hunting around the world. There are lots of ethnic hunting communities that are in conflict with modern laws and perhaps that contrast is reflected more strongly in Europe, however throughout the tropics there are tribes where bird trapping is a way of life. A case from Brazil is already added but you can see another in : Grubh BR & PB Shekar (1968). "Blacknecked Stork (Xenorhynchus asiaticus) and the marriage of Mirshikars". Newsletter for Birdwatchers 8 (3): 1–2. http://www.archive.org/stream/NLBW9#page/n2/mode/1up As for the removal of country boundaries, I think the use of country sections tends to have a very divisive effect on articles that will disrupt the structure and make it unreadable especially since every country will have laws that can be interpreted for usage against bird trapping/hunting. Shyamal (talk) 02:37, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
- Shyamal went ahead and made some changes. And most of these seem to be fine. However, to list bird lime as a non-lethal method of capturing little birds is disingenuous. Further, deleting country-specific situations and problems (without any discussion) impoverishes the article. Many WP articles do specifically address individual situations in various countries, and eliminating such information on the claim that it is not "very suitable" does a disservice to the interested reader and violates WP's practice. Malta has a larger paragraph than the others for a number of reasons: critical step in the flyway, strong local traditions, EU - Malta conflict, and significant international attention. I have no objection to a lethal - non-lethal sectioning as implemented (as long as the bird lime problem is addressed), but also suggest to keep verified information concerning country-specifics; this can be done in a separate section such as "Bird trapping in specific countries".Ekem (talk) 22:46, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
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