Talk:Bicha of Balazote

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Archaeology

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Spain

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Correct title?

Based on the text, shouldn't this article be moved to Bicha of Balazote? Ecphora (talk) 12:00, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Deer?

The article states "It was first studied by a group of French archaeologists who identified it as a kind of deer, hence the name 'biche' (doe, female deer in French)." This is hard to believe. First, it doesn't look anything remotely like a deer. To an archeologist, it would resemble an Assyrian bull-man. Second, it's not female; note the beard. The earliest reference I found in English (Jose Pijoian, "Iberian Sculpture," The Burlington Magazine for Connoisseurs, Vol. 22, No. 116 (Nov. 1912)) describes it as a bull with a man's head and references earlier French studies. His discussion of the French studies refers to bull-men and does not suggest anything about a deer. Is there anything to support that statement? Ecphora (talk) 23:27, 11 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Here's another problem with this "deer" thing. Although Spanish dictionaries generally translate "bicha" as "snake" (this is hardly a snake) one gives "Arte fantastic zoomorphic being, sometimes hybrid half human half animal" See Diccionario Espasa concise inglés-español © 2000 Espasa Calpe. Cassells gives "fantastic caryatid" which is closer than "deer." Ecphora (talk) 16:44, 12 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

According to Pijoain, the earliest article to discuss this artifact, was M.A.Engel, “Rapport sur une Mission Archeologique en Espagne,” in Nouvelles Archives des Missions Scientifiques et Littéraires; Choix de Rapports et Instructions, Vol. III (1892), p. 196. I have located a copy of Engel’s article. The article, written in French, refers to the artifact as "la vicha," using italics for that word, indicating he was using a foreign (i.e., Spanish) word. Vicha plainly is a variant of bicha, "v" and "b" often being interchangeable. There was no identification of it as a "deer" or indeed no reference to any "deer" in the article. I will continue to look. Ecphora (talk) 01:43, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I located an 18th century Spanish dictionary defining bicha to include a man-animal hybrid, a use preceding the discovery and naming of this artifact. So, I have removed the unreferenced and unconvincing deer story. Ecphora (talk) 15:36, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

To bring this to a close, I finally got a copy of the second of the early French articles about the bicha mentioned by Pijoain, L. Heuzey "Le Taureau Chaldeen a Tete Humaine et Ses Derives," in Monuments et Memoires Publies par l'Academie des Inscriptions et Belles-Lettres, Paris (1900), pp. 115-132. There is no mention of any "deer." Heuzey stated "les habitants l'ont appelé la Vicha, nom d'une bête imaginaire et malfaisante, comme le loup-garou de nos campagnes." Id., p. 120. Basically, "the inhabitants call it la Vicha, the name of an imaginary evil animal, like the werewolf of our countryside." He compared it to the Chaldeen bull-man as one would expect. So, adios Bambi. Ecphora (talk) 05:32, 7 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]