Talk:Beenie Man

Informative

Hm personally I think this place is VERY informitev <-I hope that is spelled rite but there are not many links if other not enof but ya kool

I don't know what the hell you think is wrong with the edited and grammatically corrected version, SqueakBox, but after this, I don't think I'll bother. Merry Christmas.

(On 8/7/2017 a/t 2:35pm)'; I ,';Am just trying to send a message to one of my Jamaican ragae artist beene man I wanted to know if he is gonna be at the laber day parade on the 9/4/2017 in neyork this year that why oam into is page rite now its just a big up respond I wanna hail up the man been I man I remember I met him at grove enter tainment center at cross road Kingston Jamaica for a rehersial for two stage shows we bought should performs on one in madivil manchester ,and one in Clarendon kelllyixt that all winkeey medio also I wanted to be on his parade truck with him this year if he was gonna be at the carribian music laber day parade festival this year I the original lady joy 1 would ride and sing along with him this year and have some good time and fun with him and feel the the music carnival festival sprith into my heart T soul and bones then after if I can I would book my self into Adams hotel on high street in upper neyork and have a good time with the rest of the crew so of this message could post along fast to reach him this would e good for me I would really appreshate this I got a lot of ragae artist friend but been I man is one of my faverett sim Simms tell me who got the kee for me beema tell him I EOD wanna ride into is beema it means is mersidees bens then shaggy is my second next idials and daddy screw coming from my baby dady stable and music label ragaie ROM jam and wild firier recording label a so hit go big up the man them don't forget all jamaican ragae artist a, big big up to you all but to those three first respect ,a'!! who say that,';?? Its the original lady joy 1.) A me say that------> big up,but no buyacka after shaba Rankin respect. The original lady joy1 (talk) 18:35, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Link farm

It has far too many links, making it confusing to even read. The links are also scattered everywhere instead of being in a neat pile. Also it mentions little about Beenie mans actual biography, instead it's mostly recent tracks and albums he sold.

Removed: intolerance

I deleted the LGBT stuff. If you can name me a reggae artist who IS tolerant of homosexuality, I'll put it all back. As it stands, the fact that reggae artists are homophobic is neither news, nor belongs in this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Scientz (talk • contribs)

I restored the section explaining the controversy. Any popular musician who sings about "executing all the gays" is not just upholding the status quo; that kind of hate speech is notable in or out of a reggae song. As for a reggae artist who accepts homosexuality, I give you Michael Franti; and if other reggae artists are writing similarly hateful lyrics, their inclusion is a matter to be decided in each individual's article. --Grace 07:07, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Again, I have re-deleted it. Discussion of reggae's--and furthermore, Jamaican culture's--anti-homosexual bent belongs in the reggae article or in an article on Jamaica. Not in every individual artist's pages. Michael Franti of Spearhead is not Jamaican reggae, but a typically more alternative form of music, and a very weak example. Non-acceptance or outright hatred of homosexuality in the norm in reggae music, not the exception to the rule. I am not saying this isn't notable. But it belongs on the reggae page. I have a similar disagreement with those who choose to add misogyny to the pages of American rappers. Again, the norm, not the exception to the rule. Any discussion of hip-hop's misogyny would belong in the page on rap, not in each artist's page. --Scientz

Focussing on anti homosexuality in reggae does a disservice to the fact that the great majority of music by the great majority of artists contains no anti homosexual lyrics while it is issues like Rastafari and conscious music that dominate the reggae scene and have done so since the beginning. Ras Billy I 22:31, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I disagree with your notion that Rastafari themes have a larger predominance in dancehall reggae music. --Scientz

Well I only listen to the internet radio for reggae, and most of what I hear on totally radio for instance is very rastafari oriented. Here where I live in the Spanish Caribbean what dominates is the reggaeton, which isnt rasta oriented and is a Spanish language form of reggae, so I certainly bow to your superior knowledge about the English speaking dancehall scene, and nor do I disagree that anti homosexuality as an issue should be talked about at reggae etc. I dont know Jamaica either and wonder if the issue of gays is very different from Latin America where there is prejudice but it doesnt stop people from being openly gay, especially in red light districts, or for being murdered for it, 6 people recently in one case in Guatemala. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Skanking (talk • contribs)

Yes, there isn't much dancehall played on the radio, just as there isn't much hardcore rap played either. But as one who has spent about 10 years on the club scene for rap/reggae, I can honestly say that the majority of dancehall does include negative references to homosexuals. Now, if this is a notable issue, it belongs in a section on the reggae page, not as what appears to be trolling on EVERY popular reggae artist's page. Incidentally, the addition of the LGBT info seems to be added by users who identify as "queer" on their user pages. If that isn't POV, I don't know what is. --Scientz

Remember to assume good faith - the fact that I'm queer doesn't disqualify me from writing neutrally about the subject! I'm not sure why you say the issue is mentioned on "EVERY popular reggae artist's page". Just looking at a few randomly, I don't see anything about it on Sean Paul, Sly & Robbie, Althea & Donna, Lee "Scratch" Perry, Desmond Dekker, Bob Marley, Ziggy Marley or Damian Marley. But what every other page says is fairly irrelevant anyway - let's keep it focused on this article.

Lyrics that could easily be interpreted as hate speech, such as "come to execute all the gays", are notable no matter who wrote them. In addition, there's currently a section about MTV withdrawing Beenie Man from an awards ceremony "due to adverse publicity and threats of protests and boycotts". This is certainly a notable issue, and I can only assume this is because of his homophobia (though the MTV paragraph makes no sense without the context you removed). I heard about him because the radio station I work for sent out a notice on our mailing list requesting announcers not to play Beenie Man because homophobia is against our station policy. I think these two examples are enough to suggest that one reason Beenie Man is notable is because of his homophobia. I've restored the section. --Grace 00:58, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Had you used any dancehall examples in your selection of "reggae" artists, I might be convinced. As it stands, it is clear you have less than "up-to-par" knowledge of reggae or Jamaican culture in general. Sean Paul is a top 40 artist, and if you had heard his material before he became famous, you would not have included him in your defense. Damian Marley's "Welcome to Jamrock" contains a slew of anti-homosexual references, and the other artists you mention have as much to do with modern reggae as The Sugar Hill Gang have to do with modern rap. I'm afraid you have no authority on the subject other than your ire as a homosexual. I apologize if that offends you. --Scientz

I based my list on the Wikipedia articles only, intending to refute your use of the word "every". But it wasn't all that important. I'm neither angry nor homosexual, and your refutations of my points shouldn't rest upon what you assume about my character (see ad hominem). Did you read the rest of my comment? Please respond to the other things I said. One of those things was that MTV withdrawing Beenie Man from an awards ceremony due to protests is a notable issue, and it makes no sense if explained only by some vague "adverse publicity". I respectfully request that you give an adequate defense of your deletion of that section before you delete it again. --Grace 01:43, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

My "defense of that section's deletion" has been the same all along. Modern dancehall reggae is, by its very nature, anti-homosexual. If you believe this is notable--which, for you, it probably is--then mention of that fact belkongs on the reggae page. I am speaking as an authority on the subject, whereas for you, "reggae" appears to include Sly & Robbie, Althea & Donna, Lee "Scratch" Perry, Desmond Dekker, Bob Marley, Ziggy Marley, none of whom are dancehall artists. Which, again is why I feel you have a particular agenda with respect include an artist's anti-LGBT stance, as opposed to recognizing it as a greater symptom of dancehall in general, and in fact, modern Jamaican culture as a whole. You have employed Michael Franti in your defense, who is not even Jamaican, and whose only inclusion merit I can see would be that he wears his hair in dreadlocks. I am really trying to be respectful here. Jamaican culture, and its number one modern export--dancehall reggae--is anti-homosexual. If that offends you as a homosexual, I would suggest any note of that fat belongs in an article on reggae or Jamaica, and not in each dancehall artist's page. Had you even known what constitutes a "dancehall" artist, you would have known where to look in order to realize my claim. I have deleted similar references from Capleton, Buju Banton, Sizzla as well as a few others who escape me at the moment, dancehall artists all of them. For the record, in the talk page of reggae, I have said that anti-LGBT info *BELONGS* there. The accusation that it is "homophopbic" as you put it should be an accusation at modern Jamaican culture as a whole, and not as a stain on each artist's Wiki page. --Scientz

While I think a brief mention of the homophobia stuff can be mentioned on the individual pages I also think there should be a section at reggae or a new article on the subject that can then be linked back to here, to Buju Banton, etc, thus giving a link to where there is encyclopedic information about this subject without it being allowed to dominate each article, which would be imposing a western politically correct view on artists who are clearly neither western (ie first world) nor politically correct. IMO these artists are unnecessarily being given a hard time by countrires which use censorship to suppress any opposition to pro gay views, something as disturbing as anti homophobia itself. Ras Billy I 14:07, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

This view is something I hadn't thought of, and also with which I completely agree. --Scientz

I have worked a brief mention of the basis for the adverse publicity. I agree that a lengthy discussion of how reggae lyrics reflect prevailing attitudes in artists' homelands is better placed elsewhere, but I do think that brief mention of why a controversy arose for this particular artist needs to be in this article. --Charlie GALVIN 19:06, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the more extensive discussion is better in other articles, but as Charlie says we do have to make sure this article briefly contextualizes the issue for those who aren't familiar with the homophobic aspects of Jamaican culture - many people around the world wouldn't be, and the article isn't only for dancehall fans. I added a sentence to the controversy section, acknowledging the fact that anti-gay lyrics are common in Jamaican dancehall reggae - so that it doesn't look like Beenie Man is being singled out. There's also a relevant section in the LGBT rights in Jamaica article, which I linked to. I also removed an external link to some "reggae in Pittsburgh" site that appears to be spam - Beenie Man isn't from Pittsburgh, is he? --Grace 00:20, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I concur. Consensus has been reached. --Scientz

Hmmm, it's obviously a compromise that has been carefully worked out here and it reads very much like it. In return for being allowed to mention homophobia as an issue, there are a couple of sentences which go to some length towards explaining (or more likely excusing) it. It is a matter of "misunderstanding" and the final "homosexual activity remains a criminal offense" reads more like saying "well, it's a crime, no wonder people speak out against it" than trying to establish context. I agree 100% with those saying that it's a much wider issue than one simply relating to Beenie Man which is also why I feel the paragraph is not doing the issue justice. Risking destabilising the equilibrium, I would suggest replacing the bit:

"This may be due in part to a misunderstanding of the dancehall lyrical culture. He and other dancehall artists preach killing, fire, gunshots and ultimate death for other members of society, including his rival Bounty Killer, but these are never taken literally, nor released internationally. His hatred for homosexuals is not unusual in a society where, as Amnesty International has noted, gays and lesbians are widely persecuted; homosexual activity remains a criminal offense."

...with "Please see LGBT rights in Jamaica and Dancehall#The_culture_of_dancehall for more information" or something like it. Since there is both the issue of balancing Beenie's individual part with societal mores AND obviously differing opinions on how to treat the issue in a NPOV manner, it's unreasonable to try to get a meaningful five line compromise.

chochem 02:31, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

The byline of "established black homophobic rasta deejay" is offensive on a number of levels. Firstly, I hardly see race in the byline of any other artist. Secondly the charge of opposition to homosexuality, does not characterize enough of his mission as an artist to be included as his byline. Neither does it set him apart from any other dancehall artist. Inclusion under controversies or issues facing this artist is probably more correct. Fair discussion of those issues in their own category would lend greater credence to this biographical work. In sharp sontrast is the introduction on Elton John, a self-confessed homosexual, who has actually named the issue of gay rights as part of his mission. Thirdly Rasta is a religion, and it is questionalble wether the artists religion need be included in the tagline. Moreover, for those who are familiar with his lifestyle, Beenie would not qualify as practicing the tenets of rastafrianism. It would be more correct to describe him as dreadlocked, rather than to attempt to characterize his faith. As it stands the introduction to Beenie Man reads like an unbalanced, inaccurate, racial and malicious slur against the artist.

If there is going to be a section about him being homophobic, surely there should be a mention of when he asked Simon Amstell, presenter of Popworld "Do you have a girlfriend?" and Amstell replied "I had a boyfriend but we split up," and gave him his phone number on a banana. I tried to put it in, but I couldn't quite manage to keep it succinct and Wikipedia-like. I'll leave it to any other more skilled Wiki writer to put it in if they want to.86.18.247.55 20:52, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Clear Bias

MTV had plans to include Beenie Man in their roster of performers at the 2004 MTV Video Music Awards, held in Miami, Florida, but due to a group gay and lesbian bloggers who disapproved of some of his Jamaican releases made a decade earlier (in response to highly a publicized man/boy rape case in Jamaica in which Beenie Man and other entertainers used their artistic abilities to expose the horrific case[citation needed]), MTV decided to exclude Beenie Man [4].

It is clear in this paragraph that the edit is hoping to alleviate the criticism of Beenie man and uses emotive language to show LGBT bloggers as being somehow gratuitous in their objections.

Beenie Man's use of the phrase battyman is a clear reference to homosexuality, specifically anal intercourse between two men. This is a common Jamaican slang still in use today.[5]

Once again a clear redaction... if the latter sentence is true then this point being made is less significant, but such structure at the moment is clearly wrought to undermine the contraversy.

(Though) criticisms of his lyrics have received a disproportionate amount and the tone in his music noticeably has become less aggressive[citation needed].

The current phrasing is just a disguised attempt to look objective and moderate, but is in fact just one more addition to the argument that Beenie Man's homosexuality is incidental or justified. No doubt this has occurred from member's objections to the section's presence at all, but should remain objective so long as it remains on the page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.7.45.241 (talk) 14:48, 9 May 2007 (UTC).

Characterization of Peter Thatchell as a human rights activist is not correct in the present tense. He is a gay rights activist.

Both are correct. Peter Thatchell and Outrage campaign for LGBT rights. By definition LGBT rights are human rights. However the the former is a more descriptivie and accurate term so I've substituted human rights with LGBT rights Nil Einne (talk) 12:08, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Unbalanced

How is the "Homophobia" section unbalanced? Hyacinth (talk) 23:47, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

(Copyedit from the Capleton talk page) Because there is Undue Weight on the Homophobia issue given the size of the article. This is a problem on a lot of Jamaican artist websites, who had people on a crusade to write homophobia sections that a disproportionate to the articles' size. See the talk page of Buju Banton's article for a discussion on it. This is not a fair representation of these artists, and the weighting is a key policy of Wikipedia. I am not condoning nor condemning their homophobic lyrics, but this is mainly notable to the LGBT community and Wikipedia is not properly representing the history of these artists, who have dozens of worldwide performances, many albums and the vast majority of songs that do not have homophobic lyrics. IMO, Homophobia is less of a per artist topic than a Jamaican cultural notability, and there's both the LGBT rights in Jamaica article (that has a large section discussing the music) and the Stop Murder Music that aptly cover what people have been injecting paragraphs into these artists. In Beenie Man's article, the Homophobia section nearly as long as his Career, which is not a fair reflection. This is why I have added the Unbalanced tag as presently the article is not properly balanced, either by reduction in the Homophobia section or expansion of the rest of the biography, or a combination of the two. This is to provide a reader with a heads up to the issues with these articles. Rasadam (talk) 03:13, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Please oh please show me where Beenie man has been categorised as a "highly political artist" in reliable sources? I have never heard him called that before, political is also a very broad and subjective word. He has political overtones in some songs, but he has released at least 500+ songs that I know of. Rasadam (talk) 00:36, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

• Sigh* I urge you to use a sandbox before putting edits into this article, since you are clearly Google-editing this artist with little personal knowledge.

• Saying Beenie Man is political under a Controversy section is misleading. Dancehall, Conscious and Reggae music (and the same for many other genres of Caribbean music) is based heavily on social commentary. This is not controversial, this is part of the genre.
• Beenie Man supporting the PNP is not controversial. Artists perform at political rallies all the times throughout the Caribbean, and add supporting lyrics to their songs. The source talked about the fact that he made comments blaming his tax evasion on the JLP. I don't even think that's notable enough, just a stupid utterance.
• Murderer was a Barrington Levy song, Beenie Man sang a remix with him after the original's release. It does not exactly advocate peace, it talks about all kind of issues (inability to trust the police, all sorts of stuff). The original would've in fact been a more peaceful version. I have no idea why this was even mentioned. And linking "Murderer" to "Peace" makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

I really don't understand your motives here. My complaint has been the controversy section has been too large compared to his career, and your answer is to try to expand and add additional controversies. I really am trying to assume good faith, but at this point I really am questioning your motives for working on this articles other than to defame his character because of his linking to LGBT issues. Rasadam (talk) 01:11, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Stating that someone is politically outspoken is not defamation. Stop talking about me and start talking about the article. Hyacinth (talk) 01:46, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Why isn't the entire "Controversies" section unbalanced? Hyacinth (talk) 04:28, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

I think mention of the specific Beenie man song that got him bannedfrom MTV, including release date and lyrics would be an informative addition. I also think Bounty Killa's past claims and other homosexual rumors thrown at Beenie should be mentioned, as it may add context to the story. I do agree that it seems to take up too much space in Beenie's biography, but I think that has more to do with his biography being too short in length. I've been a big Beenie man fan for about 15 years, but do not feel expert enough on the details to add such info, but I can visably recognize the incompleteness of his biographical section, both musically and personally. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 156.33.208.25 (talk) 15:54, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

BLPSources

Ok, so why do we need this tag at the top of the page? Virtually everything in the article is now sourced with the exception of the section on his personal life. That can be tagged specifically as needing sources, so why do we need the whole article to be tagged as requirring sources?--Michig (talk) 05:51, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Since there has been no response here I have removed the tag.--Michig (talk) 11:27, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Pro Marijuana

How come it is not mentioned that Beenie is part of the marijuana movement. He has several drug related lyrics mostly in "The Chronic", "Ganja Farm" and "Ganja Anthem". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.171.37.139 (talk) 04:22, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Beef with Mavado

It is also not mentioned that Beenie Man is in a current conflict with fellow dancehall artist, Mavado. I am listening to a song right now called "Stock Pile" which is supposedly a diss track aimed at him.

"Homophobe" in lede

An anonymous IP keeps adding this to the lede which is inappropriate. If anyone feels this is justified please discuss it here before re-adding it.--Michig (talk) 07:16, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Article semi-protected for five days. IP-hopping users with an agenda get tiring. — ξ^xplicit 23:01, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

It could be construed that you have an agenda of your own by deleting it. I do not feel it necessary to go as far as putting "Beenie Man is a homophobe" in the lede, but Beenie Man has caused widespread controversy and been widely criticized for his homophobic lyrics and opinions, and this could be mentioned in the lede as one of the things he is most known for, and then expanded upon in the main article. It is also appropriate to place this article in the Homophobia category as it pertains to a subject (person, organisation, object, etc) that is related to the topic of homophobia. There have been lengthy discussions about correct usage of the term, and consensus is that it is appropriate to use it where the article subject has a clear and well documented connection to the category. It does not matter if Beenie Man himself has denied being homophobic, it is still a clear connection to the subject of homophobia. Please do not remove this unless that consensus changes. 80.47.23.180 (talk) 05:32, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Beenie Man is one of only ten artists worldwide currently being protested for lyrics urging that people be murdered or tortured. I don't understand how anyone can argue that this fact, along with a lyric example that clarifies the reason, does not belong at the very top of his entry. I'm not December 2009, but I agree with them completely. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.111.63.127 (talk) 22:44, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Stop Murder Music (2010)

This artist is one of only ten worldwide who are being protested for calling in their lyrics for the murder and torture of people. Whether you agree with the protest or not, it is this fact that makes these ten artists stand out, and it should be referenced at the top of the artistes entry (along with a lyric clarifying the reason for the protest). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.111.63.127 (talk) 22:48, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

I pared down the "Stop Murder Music" section (renaming it "Lyrics Controversy"), removing opinionated material, and the continued references to YOUR campaign. I have, however, left the citations. The section is much more neutral now, and I advise you to leave it alone.--Chimino (talk) 14:54, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

new singles July 2010

there are new singles such as "I'm Okay" and "drinking rum and redbull". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikireadernow (talk • contribs) 21:14, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

They are indeed popular singles right now, however I have an overall problem with the singles listing, as Beenie Man has had top singles nearly every year of his career going back to the early 1990s, as well as before. It's simply impossible (or at least, nonconstructive to the page) to list them all.--Chimino (talk) 14:05, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Lead paragraph

I'm also going to make a change in the lead paragraph. It finishes with "He is now the proclaimed," King of the Dance Hall."", but this nickname was given to himself after recording the single "King of the Dancehall" (which led to a dispute with Yellowman, who has been crowned "King" by his peers in the past). Therefore I am changing the title to "self-proclaimed King of the Dancehall". Any disagreements, please post them here.--Chimino (talk) 14:03, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

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