Talk:Battle of Uman

Untitled

Gdr, did you had any particular reason for reverting? bogdan ʤjuʃkə | ^Talk 23:14, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The country was known as "Rumania" at the time. "Romania" is the modern spelling. I use contemporary English spellings for place names, at least for 19th and 20th century topics. Thus my World War II articles use the spellings Belorussia (not Belarus), Rumania (not Romania), Kiev (not Kyiv), Tjilatjap (not Cilacap) etc. This means that the articles match the usage in contemporary documents and I follow what professional historians do. For example, historian John Erickson uses "Rumania" in his discussion of this battle in The Road to Stalingrad. Gdr June 28, 2005 08:35 (UTC)

Kirponos

On 10 July Kirponos was sacked

What the heck is that supposed to mean? Fucked? I am removing for now, until clarification. mikka (t) 1 July 2005 16:55 (UTC)

sack, vt. to dismiss from employment. Gdr 2005-07-03 08:36:28 (UTC)

Yes, I have the dictionary. It was utterly strange for me to see a slang term in an encyclopedia article, hence my silly comment. The real confusion here is the date. Acording to Kirponos bio, he was killed during when the Staff of the S-W Front was trying to break out of the encirclement, on September 20. In the description of the episode Kirponos was referred to as Front Commander, which contradicts the current article.

Therefore an additional confirmation is required for the sentence in question. I will look into it, since the article authors do not respond here. mikka (t) 3 July 2005 20:07 (UTC)

OK. I got it. The problem is the English translation confusion of "Soviet Southwestern Front" and "Soviet forces in the Southwestern direction". mikka (t) 3 July 2005 20:39 (UTC)

Yes, thank you for the correction. My mistake entirely. Gdr 4 July 2005 18:06 (UTC)

"advisable for Budyonny to withdraw"

I placed a "dubious" label here, since this is an overgeneralized phrase. This was not, like, a single action. This was a long chaos of defense, with multiple decisions, some of which was influenced by wrong estimates of the intentions of Germans, for a huge number of trops. Not to say that the "advisable" word is ridiculous, and most surely POV. mikka (t) 3 July 2005 21:08 (UTC)

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What is known of the fate of the 103,000 prisoners?

https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/German_mistreatment_of_Soviet_prisoners_of_war describes 3.3 million deaths in Soviet PoWs through death marches, starvation, exposure, execution, and other causes. What is known of the fates of the prisoners from this battle, if anything? The citation is an undated Life magazine, so hard to check. DewiMorgan (talk) 01:18, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

The captives of the Red Army were gathered in the clay quarry, known as the "Uman Pit". As Nuzhdin writes (the author of the most detailed book on the Uman cauldron: "There are no data on the exact number of soldiers and commanders of the Red Army that have passed through this camp and the number of dead." It is known that some of the prisoners, who convinced the Germans that they were Ukrainians and do not support the Soviets, were released (some immediately crossed the front line and continued the struggle). In the Soviet memoirs of prisoners, the conditions of detention in the "Uman Pit" are described as horrifying. Later the prisoners from the "Uman Pit" were sent to different long-term camps. By the beginning of 1942, 47% of the prisoners in camps in Germany died. In the camps on the territory of the USSR the situation was much worse. The mortality rate of 80-90% was not unusual.--Nicoljaus (talk) 10:27, 16 September 2018 (UTC)