Talk:Battle of Glen Shiel

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Hello, I've added a cleanup tag to this page. It is clearly a valiant attempt at an interesting article by a non-native English speaker, but it needs to be re-written in clearer, more concise prose. I have already done the section on the fall of Eilean Donan castle, and will gradually do the others if no one else does.

I think also that it could be shortened considerably, since this battle was really only a minor skirmish. The links to European politics are interesting though. Also one of the hills in Glen Shiel is still called "The Peak of the Spaniards". Thruston 12:29, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Just been trying to work on this. I know little about this battle (dim memories), but i've re-phrased a lot of the it to counteract the original writer being a speaker of ESL, and italicised ship names. Pydos 12:38, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

I added a load more detailed infomation the otherday including the battle box, who was on each side; Government army and Jacobite army and details of the battle itself.mjgm84 17:24, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi. The claim that "it was the last close engagement of British and foreign troops on mainland British soil" is contradicted by the presence of French troops in the Young Pretender's campaign (see Jacobite rising). At Culloden there is actually a "French Stone" (see it here) commemorating the French Regiment that fought there. 87.6.59.109 19:12, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

The link to the english commander is correct?

Available source with map

In case this is of future interest. Between pages 416 and 417 is a map of the Plan of Battle, by John Ross of Aberdeen. The article also includes an older, more detailed map, but only part of it is visible. The article may (or not) provide some complementary information.

• Terry, C. Sanford (1905), "The Battle of Glenshiel", The Scottish Historical Review, vol. II, Glasgow: James Maclehose and Sons, p. 412-423, retrieved 2008-07-31

Regards, Notuncurious (talk) 02:10, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

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Please explain categorisation as this battle as Clan Feud

I've removed these boxes; the categorisation of clan feud is not used for other Jacobite battles and its not clear why this one is different.

For me, it perpetuates an antiquated view of Scottish history. Its not something I feel that strongly about, but I'd like to understand why. I think its a reasonable request.

Robinvp11 (talk) 18:23, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

In brief, it is common knowledge that rival clans took opposing sides in the various Jacobite risings. The obvious example is that most of the Clan Campbell (led by the clan chief who was the Duke of Argyll) were on the Government side whilst most of the Clan Donald and its various branches were on the Jacobite side. There are some minor exceptions with this: a small group of Campbells fought as Jacobites in 1715 at Sherrifmuir and in the 1745 MacDonald of Sleat raised two battalions in support of the Government. But these are odd exceptions. With Glen Shiel in 1719, if you look at the clans that provided men to fight there in support of the Government (Munros, Rosses, Sutherlands, Mackays, Frasers, all from the "northern" Highalnds) these were historically rivaled with the clans who fought as Jacobites at Glen Shiel (Camerons, Mackenzies, Mackintoshes etc). I am by no means saying that clan feud was the only thing that determined which side they took, there are obviously much more relevant things than that, but it certainly played a part in it. QuintusPetillius (talk) 19:08, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

Additionally to my reply above, this recent clan gathering in Scotland certainly suggests that the battle was regarded in part as a "clan" battle, see link [1]. Also, you really should discuss before removing, not the other way round, which therefore gives me reason to revert. By taking the action that you have taken by removing without prior discussion is Toff-like. QuintusPetillius (talk) 20:58, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

Of course everything happening in Scotland is a clan thing. The government army consisted of 2,000 men, among which there were 56 MacKays and 90 Monroes, there was at least one MacDonald (Daniel in Montagu's battalion) and a Farquharson (Hugh). For the more perceptive amongst us that is of course a strong argument in favour of the whole thing being a clan battle, and one might even marvel at the fact that a MacDonald and a Farquharson fought for the government. The conclusion is of course that allegiance in those two clans was obviously divided. And the fact that George Keith, the 10th Earl of Marischal, fought on the Jacobites site of course means that Clan Keith was also involved, just like the presence of two Brigadiers by the name of Campbell (Campbell of Ormondale and Campbell of Glendaruel) means that Clan Campbell fought for the rebels, although they were traditionally strictly non-Jacobite. [cf. Jonathan Oates, Battles of the Jacobite Rebellion]. The Jacobite commander-in-chief, the Marquis of Tullibardine, didn't know anything about CLANs Keith, Campbell or Mackintosh fighting, he just mentioned individual officers, but we all know that Keiths, Campbells and Mackintoshes never turn up alone, but only surrounded by their clan. The only clans Tullibadine mentions are the Mackenzies, the MacGregors, the MacKinnons and the Camerons [cf. William Kirk Dickson, The Jacobite Attempt of 1719]. But he probably wasn't quite in the know anyway seeing as he lost the battle. Another clan element also needs attention: There were 200 regular Spanish soldiers fighting for the Jacobites and c. 2,000 - 56 - 90 = c. 1,850 regular soldiers in the government army, but this is also typical of clan battles, isn't it, the presence of regular troups that are clansmen at heart. Sometimes I even think that even the Korean War was a kind of clans battle, because the American commander-in-chief was a MacArthur. Here endeth the silly talk. 93.208.72.78 (talk) 10:42, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

The Galicia Regiment didn't belong to the Marines

It was an army unit. Line infantry.