Talk:Barbary lion

Barbary lion versus other lions

Extinct or not?

The texts says: "It is extinct in the wild and was believed to be extinct in captivity until stray individuals were located in circus populations within the last three decades." But as far as I know there are no proven (genetically) pure Barbary lions in captivity. Many zoos and private institutions claim to have a Barbary Lion, due to their appearance. This is not evidence of the existence of this subspecies. The large mane, etc. is also caused by life in captivity. There is however a possibility, but most likely they are only descendents and cross-bred hybrids. If someone can present evidence of its pure existence in captivity, I would be very happy. Until now I haven't seen any! Pmaas 09:22, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

This is what I write on my website [1]: "Several people and institutions claim to have Barbary lions, and this lion subspecies is often seen as 'extinct in the wild'. There is much confusion between Barbary Lions and other long-maned captive lions. Lions in captivity today have been bred and cross-bred from lions captured in Africa long ago - with examples from all of these 'subspecies'. Mixed together, hybridised, most of today's captive lions have a 'soup' of genes from many different lions. Compound that with the many other variables that decide the extent of a lion's mane and you begin to see just how inappropriate the following statement is: "This lion has a long mane and so must be a Barbary". Until the DNA fingerprinting is produced, there is no definitive way to identify a lion as Barbary. The Extinction Website does not recognize the existence of a living specimen of the Barbary, and acknowledges that the subspecies is extinct." Pmaas 09:38, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Longleat Safari Park in England also claims to have a Barbary Lion -- I was just watching it on TV. The Wikipedia article on Longleat Safari Park also lists it. I just thought I'd mention it as you don't mention Longleat on your website. -- Peter Harriman

Thanks. Peter Maas 17:24, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Some people here keep changing "extinct" into "extinct in the wild"! Why? Please give a good reason. There is evidence that there is a Barbary lion in captivity. It can now be tested if lions are genetically barbary from the maternal (female) line! Until now only five specimens from the famous "Barbary" collection of the Moroccan King have been tested: result NOT maternally Barbary! Therefor it seem very dubious to keep on calling this subspecies "extinct in the wild", because there is no evidence it survives in captivity, until now. Please comment here if you disagree! Peter Maas 15:15, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Just so you know, it's not me! Peter Harriman 19:53, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I know who it is, but he or she does not respond/answers in the talk pages, sadly enough.Peter Maas 15:18, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Just to inform you all: I've recieved an email from Dr Nobuyuki Yamaguchi (Wildlife Conservation Research Unit Oxford University, Department of Zoology). He does a lot of research to the Barbary lion (he is the (co-)author of the most recent scientific articles on this subject). This is what he says: "Based on the best knowledge available at the moment, I would say they have become extinct at least in the wild. If one would carry out a worldwide survey on the genetic characteristics of captive lions, the answer may be changed. Also, the concept of conservation of lion genetic diversity may also change the concept of extinction in the future." Do you have a problem with changing it into: "The Barbary Lion, Atlas lion or Nubian lion Panthera leo leo is a subspecies of lion that has become extinct at least in the wild." Please respond this time on the talk pages. Peter Maas 15:18, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

all existing "Barbary Lions" are hybrids, so the pure Barbary Lion is indeed extinct. --Melly42 11:26, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

That is not shure. There are captive lions, which could be pure barbary lions.--Altaileopard 15:49, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Could someone find a photo of the "alleged" Barbary Lions in captivity--Francisco Valverde 13:42, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

I've seen several, all with large manes. But that does not say anything. A few are descendents from the Moroccan royal lions. They might indeed by pure (although that would be very unlikely in my opinion as most zoo-lions are not pure subspecies) or hybrids. The ones tested were not barbary (from the female line). But not all are tested. Here an image of one [2]. Zoos and animal parks that claim to have Barbary lions or descendents (only the ones I know): Temara Zoo (Rabat, Morocco); Port Lympne Wild Animal Park (Kent, England); Longleat Safari Park (Wiltshire, England); Zoo de Madrid (Madrid, Spain); Big Cat Rescue (Tampa, Florida, U.S.A.); Parc de la tête d'Or ( Lyon, France); Zoo Neuwied (Neuwied, Germany), Zion Wildlife Gardens (Kamo, New Zealand). Peter Maas\^talk 18:46, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Here an interesting pdf (Urgent call for further breeding of the relic zoo population of the critically endangered Barbary lion (Panthera leo leo Linnaeus 1758)) on the Barbary lions of Neuwied Zoo. Peter Maas\^talk 19:00, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

That article uses a lion from Neuwied Zoo. The position of the specimen from the Neuwied Zoo in the cladogram (Fig. 1) is a proof that its mitochondrial lineage is not of sub-Saharan origin and, thus, very likely a descendant of a Barbary lion. It does not say if it is pure or not. Peter Maas\^talk 20:01, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Belfast Zoo in Northern Ireland not only claim to have Barbary Lions but have so far sucessfully bred three cubs. Lily was born in 2007 and rejected by her mother forcing her to be hand reared by her keeper who used an Akita dog to simulate proper cub behaviours so that Lily could be reintegrated successfully into the pack. In January 2008 two male cubs were born and are doing well. I'm told this is the most successful breeding programme in Europe but I wasn't aware that there was debate over their purty. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Captainbeecher (talk • contribs) 09:34, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

The current article is very problematical, on one hand all genetic tests conducted on alleged living specimens have showed they weren't Barbary lions, yet the article still contains claims like "cubs were recently born in Morocco Zoo" and so on. FunkMonk (talk) 09:12, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Even if the original Barbary lion of Northern Africa is extinct, it was found to be related to other lions, even if distantly, including Senegal and Asiatic lions, and so the Cat Specialist Group treats the latter two as belonging to Panthera leo leo. Leo1pard (talk) 06:08, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Size

There has been evidence that the Barbary was any bigger than a African Lion, yet it has a Barbary was approximitly the same size of a Bengal Tiger..... This Lion vs Tiger thing is going to far. The purpose of this site is to educate people on the choosen topic not to play child hood fantacy games. If yall are going to make such claims I think there should be a source at least.

I Can't Find Some Information

---

I'm having quite a bit of trouble. Do you know, or know where I could find out, the name for a barbary lion that rules the pride?

I think you've organized the page very well. It is also very interesting that we don't know if they're extinct or not (I hope they aren't).

P.S. I'm new to Wikipedia, as in, less than a month here. --African Pygmy Hedgehog 00:46, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

I have 5 Barbary Lions in my reproduction center in Mexico City and if someone wants more information and photos please contact me at carlosperalta@iusa.com.mx —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.79.160.168 (talk) 03:24, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Bergmann's rule for lions: See this. Leo1pard (talk) 07:07, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

It seems that the Barbary lion was not large, being only 'slightly' bigger than large black Barbary leopards, but could attain exceptional weights by preying on livestock. Leo1pard (talk) 05:30, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

References

New genetic test available

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/04/080404-tower-lions.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.70.9.93 (talk) 12:31, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

different how?

how is the Barbary lion genetically different from the regular lion is it the mane? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.203.28.14 (talk) 02:41, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

A genetic difference is du to differences in the DNA-Sequence, but that does not mean that there has to be a difference in the phentotype. A genetic difference is noetheless important, as you can see how strong two forms are related. --Altaileopard (talk) 16:23, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Last one shot in 1942?

The second sentence of the article states "It is believed that the last Barbary Lion was shot in the western Maghreb during the year 1942 near Tizi n'Tichka." Later on, however, it is stated that Barbary lions were sighted into the 1950s, and possibly the 1960s. Which statement is correct? If the first is correct, shouldn't we clarify that "Possible sightings of Barbary lions in Morocco and Algeria continued into the 1950s, and small remnant populations may have survived into the early 1960s in remote areas"? If the second is correct, shouldn't we clarify that "It is often believed that the last Barbary lion was shot in the western Maghreb during the year 1942 near Tizi n'Tichka"? B14709 (talk) 19:07, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

Statement superceded by DNA analysis?

This article: "Emperor Haile Selassie I of Ethiopia had a collection of Barbary lions that were kept in the Addis Ababa Zoo."

Lion: "A newly discerned lion subspecies could exist in captivity in Ethiopia's capital city of Addis Ababa. Researchers compared the microsatellite variations over ten loci of fifteen lions in captivity with those of six different wild lion populations. They determined that these lions are genetically unique and presumably that "their wild source population is similarly unique." These lions—with males that have a distinctly dark and luxuriant mane seem to define a new subspecies perhaps native only to Ethiopia. These lions were part of a collection of the late Haile Selassie I of Ethiopia."

Did the Emperor maintain two separate lion populations, or is the statement about them being Barbary lions wholly wrong on recent evidence? Samsara 15:14, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for your attention!! The authors of the ref'ed article do indeed NOT claim that these lions were Barbary, but only that they looked like ones because of their "dark brown manes extending down the chest through the front legs". So I changed the statement. -- BhagyaMani (talk) 16:22, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

From recent genetic research, it appears that the Barbary lion lives on in the Senegal lion. Leo1pard (talk) 18:21, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

This article needs to be fixed..

Still is uncleary 1) if barbary lions are or not still present 2) if the barbary lion is a real subspecies and not a simple population (say watussi...), and if it was really a subspecies, then why is so difficult to classificate extante lions? Apparently the barbary lion is just like the california grizzly, more a 'population' rather than a distinct subspecies. Anyway, the article is not clear at all about all this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.11.0.22 (talk) 01:43, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

From recent genetic research, it appears that the Barbary lion lives on in the Senegal lion, even if in a distant way. Leo1pard (talk) 07:04, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Is the Nubian lion Panthera leo leo or Panthera leo nubicus?

See the ... for more details. Leo1pard (talk) 18:21, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

It would be better to keep the discussion on the talk page of an article, like here, than that of a redirect, where few will see it. FunkMonk (talk) 18:25, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

OK, like I said, according to Haas et al. (2005), the lion from Nubia is called P. l. nubicus, and they equate it with the East African lion, rather than the North African lion. However, since Nubia stretches from Egypt (and the ancient Egyptian lion was considered to have been a population of the North African lion) to what used to be considered as the northern part of Sudan, what is your consensus on this? Leo1pard (talk) 07:31, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

Sensu stricto, the Nubian lion is a separate animal. Leo1pard (talk) 05:48, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

References

Leo1pard (talk) 07:31, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

Conservation Status

Why is the conservation status (Extinct in the wild) not visible? Come on! We should make the status visible. Pancakes654 00:42, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

because the subspecies is NOT extinct in the wild, and IUCN assessors did not assess this particular population as a separate and distinct unit! -- BhagyaMani (talk) 08:19, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

BhagyaMani meant the 'new' Panthera leo leo that also includes the extant Senegal and Asiatic lions, not the original Barbary lion. Leo1pard (talk) 05:58, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

And in 2016, P. l. leo was used by the IUCN Red List for all surviving populations in Africa. Leo1pard (talk) 08:01, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

References

Somali lion versus North African lion

Should this article have information about lions in Somalia, apart from their taxonomic importance, considering that Somalia is not in Northern Africa, but in Eastern or Northeastern Africa, and the Cat Specialist Group subsumed lions in Eastern Africa to P. l. melanochaita, not P. l. leo? In addition, genetics do not support the notion of them being purely Northern African lions. Leo1pard (talk) 16:45, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Mauritania versus Mauretania, and Barbary lion versus Senegal lion

Southern coast of Mauritania, in the delta of the Senegal River

The montane ecosystem near Chelia in Algeria

The modern country of Mauritania is hot, with most of it being in the Sahara. There was a lion in Diawling National Park, but this would have been a Senegal lion, especially considering that the park borders the West African country of Senegal, and is located in the delta of the Senegal River. As for the ancient kingdom of Mauretania, it stretched from what is now Algeria to the Atlantic Ocean, and thus stretched through the territory of the Barbary lion. Leo1pard (talk) 17:09, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

Though Mauritania is in North Africa, a difference between the Barbary lion of North Africa and the Senegal lion of West Africa is that they lived in different ecosystems. The Senegal lion inhabits rather hot and moist areas like Pendjari National Park in Benin, which is similar to Diawling National Park in Mauritania. The Barbary lion would have lived in temperate montane forests, like near Chelia in Algeria. Leo1pard (talk) 04:45, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

But then, the issue of climates does make me think about the Nubian or Egyptian lion of Northeast Africa. Leo1pard (talk) 17:54, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

References

WildLink International

"WildLink International can not be reached anymore and their website is nowadays offline. Everyone is in the dark as to what happened to WildLink International."

I think this should be removed, or at least revised as it seems to contradict other parts of the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.213.150.112 (talk) 17:15, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Barbary Lion or Barbary lion

Surely the latter is correct? Mooretwin (talk) 14:04, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Order of facts in intro

BhagyaMani First you state the broader fact and then the more more limited one:

• John has passed away; he had a heart attack
• My dog is missing; he was last seen this morning at nine o'clock
• It is believed that the barbary lion dies out in the 60s; the last recorded sighting was in 1942.

I said this to you before, but you insist on having it your way. Please see a message I left on your talkpage. Regards, Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 08:02, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Wow, does someone here have a WP:OWN problem or what? Andy Dingley (talk) 19:59, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

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Page views

Leo1pard (talk) 04:22, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

See also

• Egyptian lion versus Nubian lion

Leo1pard (talk) 04:31, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

Request

(Copied from User talk:69.166.88.74)— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 20:09, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

I was hoping you could update the article on North African Lions with this information. In 2016 only 50 of this species was discovered in the Bale Mountains of Ethiopia. They are genetically different from other lions. "lead author Susann Bruche, who conducted the research with Max Planck with the Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany, but is now with Imperial College London, echoed the need for preserving these lions' singular genetics. "A great amount of genetic diversity in lions has most likely already been lost, largely due to human influences. Every effort should be made to preserve as much of the lion's genetic heritage as possible." These lions need our help. The Addis Ababa Zoo is trying to construct a bigger facility to help with this need and to set up a breeding program. They are working with Leipzig Zoo to construct this facility. Please contact to see how you can help prevent this lion's extinction. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.166.88.74 (talk) 14:59, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Please provide a reliable source for this information. We will not be contacting anyone.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 20:06, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

This information would have a place here. Leo1pard (talk) 09:27, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

I think this is old information, these zoo lions being genetically extinct. It was certainly in one of the lion articles at some point. Some information can be found here, including the quote by the lead author (Susann Bruche) of the study (in the European Journal of Wildlife Research). Perhaps some new information on the facility can be found somewhere.   Jts1882 | talk  10:10, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

The article in question: "A genetically distinct lion (Panthera leo) population from Ethiopia".   Jts1882 | talk  10:15, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

Not genetically extinct, but different to other lions in East Africa, as detailed there. Leo1pard (talk) 13:26, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

References

Request for comment

Please see/contribute to discussion at Talk:Lion#Request_for_comment:_How_many_subpages? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:23, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

The picture from Morocco and has deliberately changed. WB399 (talk) 23:08, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Subspeciesbox vs. Taxobox

Hey @Casliber, Jts1882, and Elmidae: I recall that we discussed this issue several years ago, and the consensus was that the subspeciesbox is appropriate for providing an overview. We have therefore been using subspeciesboxes in all the other pages on cat populations. Now a new user changed it on THIS page only to taxobox 2x. Please comment + revert if you deem appropriate. – BhagyaMani (talk) 09:40, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

I've reverted it, unneeded change. FunkMonk (talk) 09:50, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Barbary lion
Scientific classification
Domain:	Eukaryota
Kingdom:	Animalia
Phylum:	Chordata
Class:	Mammalia
Order:	Carnivora
Suborder:	Feliformia
Family:	Felidae
Subfamily:	Pantherinae
Genus:	Panthera
Species:	P. leo
Subspecies:	P. l. leo
Population:	Barbary lion

There is a case for making it clear that the Barbary lion is not a common name for the subspecies, but just a subset of it. Is the objection showing population in the taxobox or not using the automated taxobox system? The population can be shown using {{Biota infobox}} or {{paraphyletic group}}. Perhaps {{Informal group}} would be a better to cover non-standard taxobox cases. —  Jts1882 | talk  11:09, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Looks like you created a new template, but didn't yet tell anyone? I like it + suggest you replace all the other subspeciesboxes in pages on populations with this one. What do others think? – BhagyaMani (talk) 11:26, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

I created {{Biota infobox}} as a Lua based replacement for {{taxobox}} and the automated conterparts. But with hundreds of thousands of taxoboxes it's a major step to implement it (on the you broke it, you fix it principle). It's used for fringe cases like the {{paraphyletic group}} and some {{hybridbox}} taxoboxes. It's much easier to change without breaking things than version in template wikitext.

I'm not entirely convinced population is correct. The IUCN did an assessment of the west African population of Panthera leo leo, and the Barbary lion is an extinct subpopulation of that. Perhaps "Informal" or "Unranked" would be better. —  Jts1882 | talk  12:00, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

We don't know when the units in the southwest and north of the Sahara became disconnected, but probably more than 2 centuries ago. Therefore, I tend to not speculate whether + which one is a subpop of the other, but think that the {{Biota infobox}} is much more appropriate than the presently used one. We can change it later, if + when more info becomes available. – BhagyaMani (talk) 12:27, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Reason why I changed it is because Barbary lion is simply a sub/populationpopulation of P. l. leo, not its own subspecies (same reason why Caspian tiger uses taxobox). Monserrrr (talk) 16:48, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Algerian lion picture

The following all deal with the same issue:

Semi-protected edit request on 4 January 2023 (3)

196.117.48.201 (talk) 12:08, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

A male Barbary lion in Morocco.

It is in Algeria.[3] FunkMonk (talk) 12:20, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

January 2023

@Ugly00015: The claim that the image that you uploaded (File:Barbaby_Lion_1839.jpg) is that of a Barbary lion from 1839 is totally baseless. The original photo makes it clear that that it's an Abyssinian lion (photographed circa 1914). M.Bitton (talk) 13:13, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

The photo of leo leo was taken in Morocco 196.121.125.11 (talk) 12:51, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

This photo was published in 1913 and was taken in Algeria, see reference. – BhagyaMani (talk) 13:37, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Also, a completely different photo was previously used as source:[4] Incidentally, that specimen is already shown in the article, and may or may not come from Morocco. I have no idea why this suddenly became a pointless, nationalist controversy... FunkMonk (talk) 13:56, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

• Apparently this is part of some stupid football thing[5], thanks Hemiauchenia to for pointing it out... FunkMonk (talk) 20:17, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 January 2023

Hey why do you allow people to twist history , an article about the barbary lion was edited not so long ago , an algerian user edited the caption under a picture of an atlas lion claiming that it was taken algeria which is absolutely false 196.64.42.54 (talk) 16:44, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

The original 19th century source the photo is from states it is Algerian:[6] Don't make this into a ridiculous nationalist argument. FunkMonk (talk) 17:03, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

It’s a moroccan lion and the picture was taken in morocco and the last atlas lion was die in morocco

This is a big mistake that’s a history o a country 196.119.143.199 (talk) 21:28, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Look at the sections above. FunkMonk (talk) 21:44, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 January 2023

Yeah the atlas lion is not from algeria it's from morocco do some research before accepting any edits, they are trying to steal our history and our culture. 196.117.67.196 (talk) 11:55, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

See above replies. – BhagyaMani (talk) 13:33, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

I've grouped all these requests under on section.

The source says it's an Algerian lion, so that's what we say it is. —  Jts1882 | talk  17:45, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 January 2023

False information has been added to this page and modifications are required. WB399 (talk) 23:04, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. 💜  melecie  talk - 00:19, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

False information has been added in the picture.

Verify references and resources. WB399 (talk) 23:06, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 January 2023

Rabinc16 (talk)

|image_caption = Male Barbary lion photographed in Morocco }} Male barbary lion photographed in Morocco Rabinc16 (talk) 16:02, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Incorrect, see discussions above or provide evidence that photo was taken in Morocco. – BhagyaMani (talk) 16:46, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

References

Pruning imagery

It seems the article suffers from image clutter, and has a lot of redundant photos of "possible" Barbary lion individuals in zoos. We should probably cut it down to historical images that undoubtedly show this population, and restrict modern images to a minimum. Also not sure why that modern painting of a gladiator is needed. FunkMonk (talk) 12:37, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

Agree! Lets remove all 3 images in the section #In captivity and move the painting of a lion hunt in Morocco to the section #Cultural significance to replace the painting of the men with a lion in colloseum. – BhagyaMani (talk) 14:01, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, these 19th century photos[7][8] also seem interesting if we could find proper sources for them. Incidentally, the latter photo also seems to be from Biskra in Algeria, as the current taxobox photo may also be from. Maybe the same individual? FunkMonk (talk) 14:12, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

I removed the three images from #In captivity, but why replace the coliseum picture? I also removed the alleged Barbary lion image under #Characteristics, to focus more on the known image. SilverTiger12 (talk) 22:22, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

I think it would be more interesting if we could find an actual contemporary Roman image of a lion if possible, no? I think we could keep one good photo of the Rabat Zoo lions under captivity, if no sources contradict that they could be Barbary lions? FunkMonk (talk) 22:58, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure whether the Rabat Zoo lions were ever tested for their ancestry. Today, most lions in zoos are of mixed origin, except the Asiatic ones. – BhagyaMani (talk) 03:54, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for removing images! I suggested to replace the painting of the men with a lion in colloseum, as I thought that one painting in this section is sufficient. – BhagyaMani (talk) 03:49, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Is it extinct or extinct in the wild/functionally extinct?

Belfast Zoo states that IUCN lists it as "Extinct in the Wild" and they claim to have three under their care. However, there is no IUCN listing for the Barbary lion, but many sources claim that it is extinct in the wild. Is it similar to South China tiger, in which it is extinct in the wild/functionally extinct, or is it truly extinct and these sources are incorrect or are outdated?

Barbary lion at Belfast Zoo Edelgardvonhresvelg (talk) 01:04, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Barbary lion status

Moved from User talk:M.Bitton § Barbary lion status

 – To give others the opportunity to weigh in. M.Bitton (talk) 12:53, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

My edit was reverted due to it contradicting the genetic studies cited in the article. Can you please explain to me what the current status of the population is? Is it completely extinct like the Atlas bear, or is it only extinct in the wild/functionally extinct similar to South China tiger? Rabat and Belfast Zoo claim that it is only extinct in the wild, and some non-English versions of the Barbary lion Wikipedia article say so as well.

Conservation – ROYAUME DU MAROC || Jardin Zoologique de Rabat, La rencontre sauvage

Barbary lion at Belfast Zoo Edelgardvonhresvelg (talk) 17:47, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

As far as I know, the Barbary lion is extinct. The claims by various zoos that it's only extinct in the wild are unsubstantiated. M.Bitton (talk) 12:53, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Hey M.Bitton. I agree to your reverting the edit by Edelgardvonhresvelg. To date, none of these zoos provided evidence for their claims that their captive lions are of Barbary origin.  – BhagyaMani (talk) 13:53, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Extinct in the wild is also reflected on some non-English versions of the page. I can look at those sources and determine. I am not upset about my edit being reverted, I just wanted clarity on the subject matter. Edelgardvonhresvelg (talk) 17:56, 26 December 2024 (UTC)