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Talk:Barack Obama "Hope" poster/GA1

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GA Review

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My suggestions are below. Please respond to each one individually, and I'll cross them out as we go. Good luck!

Intro:

  • "An iconic image" is POV; who's to say it's iconic? It would be more accurate to describe it as a poster that became widely recognized around the world, or something like that.
    • Reuters, among others, has cited at the end of the first sentence. I don't think it's biased at all to call it "iconic", which is pretty much how it's always described. I've added another citation from the BBC just for some variety; there are others from AP, New York Times, LA Times, and other high-end news organizations, but I don't think it's necessary.--ragesoss (talk) 07:21, 22 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • Don't get me wrong, I think iconic is an accurate description. But I'm a reporter in real life, and if I tried to write "the iconic poster" in describing this, I'd get scolded by my editors. By including it this way you are (and by extension, the article is) declaring that it's iconic, and thus opening up neutrality and POV problems. 'However, you could easily say something like this: "The Barack Obama 'HOPE' poster is an image of Barack Obama designed by artist Shepard Fairey, which has been widely described as an iconic image that became synonymous with the Obama 2008 presidential campaign." or something like that. You can use the same sources for attribution for that. --Hunter Kahn (talk) 16:31, 22 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The end of this intro should include the fact that the image on the poster was eventually discovered to be inspired by an AP photo taken by Mannie Garcia, and that Fairey and AP are in discussions over whether the image is fair use or requires permission.
  • Can we break the intro into at least two paragraphs? I'd actually suggest three: start the second one at "It was created and distributed widely..." and the third one at "In January 2009..." since the third paragraph will be longer once the copyright issues are added.
  • The image of the comparison between the Mannie Garcia picture and the poster should be moved down to the "Origin and copyright issues" section.

Concept and design:

  • Perhaps the wikilink should be dropped for Yosi Sergant; if this person is just a publicist, it seems unlikely an article will ever be created for them, so the redlink shouldn't stay. (On the other hand, I suggest keeping in the Steven Heller and Mannie Garcia redlinks, since those people are more notable and would perhaps have articles made about them in the future.)
    • I suspect that Sergant is notable. Actually, he probably meets the general notability criterion just from coverage related to the poster, but I believe he has been covered in relation to other work as well.--ragesoss (talk) 07:21, 22 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "(eventually revealed to be an April 2006 photo by freelancer Mannie Garcia for The Associated Press [5][2])" -- Could you provide add something to this like "...Associated Press; see Origin and copyright issues section below)" with a wikilink to the related section? Also, place the citations outside the parathesis, not within it, and make sure they are in order ([2][5], not [5][2])
    • The internal link seems like a messy way to do it, and I don't think it's necessary for so small an article, especially since the footnotes can lead readers to the information anyway. I've fixed the formatting.--ragesoss (talk) 07:21, 22 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Since Mannie Garcia and the Associated Press are mentioned here first, put the wikilinks up here, and remove them from the "Origin and copyright issues" section.
    • They are now mentioned in the intro and linked there only.--ragesoss (talk) 07:46, 22 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • I wikilinked them at their first reference in the article as well for consistency sake; the other wikilinks in the intro are also wikilinked in the article too, so I think it makes sense to do them for Garcia and the AP as well. If this is bothersome to you for any reason though, you can change them back and I won't be offended. :D --Hunter Kahn (talk) 16:31, 22 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Some context is needed to explain what exactly the "signature OBEY star" means.
  • It should be mentioned somewhere in this section that Fairey readily admits he found the photograph that served as the basis for the poster during a Google Image Search. I'm pretty sure there are about a bazillion sources for this, but just to name a few: here and here.

Distribution during the 2008 campaign:

Parodies and imitations:

Origin and copyright issues:

  • "... where Obama was also in attendance." This part of the sentence can be dropped; it's obvious Obama was there because a photo was taken of him there, no need to spell it out so much.
  • It should be mentioned that the Jim Young photo originally believed to be the source image was taken in January 2007; there are lots of sources for this, shouldn't be hard to find one.
  • Maybe it's worth mentioning that the only time Fairey tries to protect his poster's copyright issues are when people bootleg it for profit does he protect it's copyright issues. I know this from his Stephen Colbert episode, although there's probably another source out there if you don't want to use that one.

Images:

  • Might it be worth including this photo in the article somewhere? It's especially interesting because it has the original PROGRESS title.
    • Although it's claimed to be a free image, obviously that one is actually fair use of Fairey's work. If the PROGRESS version is to be pictured, I think it would be better just to use a straight version of that. But again, I think it's hard to justify any additional fair use images.--ragesoss (talk) 08:31, 22 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

--Hunter Kahn (talk) 06:08, 22 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

A good article is:

  1. Well-written: Prose is good, MOS is good.
  2. Factually accurate and verifiable: Sources are good, no original research.
  3. Broad in its coverage: Covers main aspects, no unneeded detail.
  4. Neutral: Yes
  5. Stable: Yes
  6. Illustrated, if possible, by images: Yes

--Hunter Kahn (talk) 19:12, 22 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]