Talk:Background to the Israel–Hamas war

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Text and/or other creative content from Israel–Hamas war was copied or moved into Background to the Israel-Hamas war on 8 July 2024. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

Article creation

Article created per agreement on [1]. Makeandtoss (talk) 13:59, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"the question of Palestine no longer matters in the Middle East"

What is the issue raised here? I am not kidding that this is the quote from the source, if that is the question being asked. CMD (talk) 11:11, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Couple things, I think. First that statement is from "Nader Hashemi, a professor of Middle East politics" so shouldn't be stated as if it were a generally agreed fact. Plus QoP is very old fashioned nowadays although the UN still uses the expression, I think it needs to be clear in what context that statement was being made, that the US administration thought they could bully through a Saudi normalization because nobody cared about the Palestinians, a notion that they have subsequently been disabused of (so it's kinda out of date too). Selfstudier (talk) 11:22, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That seems to be a goal improved by expanding the quote? CMD (talk) 12:05, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe use the original NYT source? Selfstudier (talk) 12:19, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It has the same quote. I understand you are raising wider points about the sentence in question, but I am hoping to receive an answer on the narrow question about why extending the existing quote in the article to make the sentence more accurate to the source was reverted. CMD (talk) 12:34, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I gave you reasons for that already. The NYT has a longer and better quote because it adds context and of course, it should anyway be attributed inline. Selfstudier (talk) 12:37, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Neither of those relates to the specific edit in question. Adding a longer quote is what I had already done. That does not preclude someone making it longer. Attributing it inline can occur with a quote of any length. CMD (talk) 12:51, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK, let me be clearer, you have no consensus to add it, because I also disagree with it. Also this discussion strikes me as a bit of a waste of time. Selfstudier (talk) 12:56, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't add it, the quote was already in the article. CMD (talk) 13:06, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I object to the content (still). Selfstudier (talk) 13:08, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That seems so, but that's a different question. If you want to expand the quote further or remove it, I have no objection. My only objection is to the current very partial presentation of the quote, something you seem to agree with. CMD (talk) 13:23, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I do, still thinking what to do, tho. Selfstudier (talk) 13:28, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Repeated?

"Hamas has repeatedly called for the destruction of Israel, notably in its 1988 charter." "Repeated" does not seem the right word here, nor does calling for the "destruction of Israel." The 1988 Charter quotes a Hadith set in the end times of what will purportedly happen to Jews. This is ambiguous as to whether it calls for the destruction of Israel.

However, in every official document since then, Hamas has called for an Israel on the 1967 lines. This includes the "This is What We Struggle For" - Memorandum prepared by Hamas Political Bureau in the late 1990s at the request of Western diplomats, The Palestine Cairo Declaration, the Prisoner's documents, the 2017 charter, as well as interviews with leaders Mishal and Sinwar.

As far as I am aware, there is no official statement by Hamas in the last 35 years calling for the destruction of Israel.

Also note that the other side is not represented. Israel has called for the annexation of Palestine as recently as two years ago in the “basic principles of Israel’s 37th government" as well as being a staple part of the Likud charter since 1977 - before Hamas was created.

This line should be expunged.

Mcdruid (talk) 23:49, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]