Talk:BPP Law School

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Edits made by the below user(s) were last checked for neutrality on 20 December 2018 by Voceditenore.

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Puffery favoring this school

This article appears to be both overly positive about its subject, and missing important information (such as the fact that BPP is a publicly traded private company rather than traditional educational institution, which they trumpet on their home page). I'm no expert on this scene -- it would be great if someone could fill in the relationship of BPP and College of Law to the Law Society, for example, as well as the different types of legal credentials in the U.K. But I am going to begin "neutralizing" some of the language for now. I see the mention on allaboutlaw.co.uk, but it is not at all clear that this is a reliable source. Here are some other interesting articles for consideration. [1] [2] [3] [4] It appears that something needs to be said abour the rivalry with College of Law, too. Msalt (talk) 18:23, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Logo Update

The page shows the former logo. It should be updated. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.220.22.217 (talk) 07:50, 16 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Name

What does BPP stand for?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.161.179.225 (talk) 02:14, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Good question, 142.161.179.225. It takes its name from the surname initials of Alan Brierley, Richard Price and Charles Prior who founded a college in 1976 to provide exam training to accountancy students, after which a law college was added in 1992. I have added that information to the "History" section. Voceditenore (talk) 09:40, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

'Insufficient' Ofsted Rating

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. The nature of the conflict of interest ought to be disclosed by the requesting editor.

Hello. I am requesting that the following be added to the “History” section.

“Following a 2018 inspection, it was reported that BPP University was the first university to be rated ‘insufficient’ by Ofsted.

Ofsted’s inspection focused on apprentices on programmes from level two to level five, covering the professional vocational areas: legal, insurance, financial services and technology, stating that managers did not have accurate or reliable data on apprentices progress.

The report also criticised the progress of apprentices as being ‘slow’, with assessors being criticised for failing to intervene in good time when an apprentice fell behind.”

All stated can be sourced to this article: https://feweek.co.uk/2018/11/01/ofsted-slams-private-sector-giant-bpp-for-being-unaware-of-the-slow-progress-apprentices-make/

Thank you. Hawaiibird (talk) 07:32, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Reply 06-NOV-2018

Unable to implement

The requesting editor has not completed the necessary disclosures regarding the nature of their conflict of interest. The editor should do so forthwith, and once completed, open a new request at their earliest convenience.

Regards, Spintendo 09:43, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Insufficient Rating by Ofsted

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.

Hello. I have COI relating to this in that I am a student with ties to BPP University and BPP Law School.

I am requesting that the following be added to the “History” section.

“Following a 2018 inspection, it was reported that BPP University was the first university to be rated ‘insufficient’ by Ofsted.

Ofsted’s inspection focused on apprentices on programmes from level two to level five, covering the professional vocational areas: legal, insurance, financial services and technology, stating that managers did not have accurate or reliable data on apprentices progress.

The report also criticised the progress of apprentices as being ‘slow’, with assessors being criticised for failing to intervene in good time when an apprentice fell behind.”

All stated can be sourced to this article: https://feweek.co.uk/2018/11/01/ofsted-slams-private-sector-giant-bpp-for-being-unaware-of-the-slow-progress-apprentices-make/

Thank you Hawaiibird (talk) 10:04, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Students are not prohibited from editing articles on schools that they attend. I don't see this as a COI issue. Spintendo 12:36, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Suspended Law Degree

I am connected with BPP Law School, with a COI.

I am asking for the following to be added to the page.

"In May of 2018, the law school suspended its LLB programme to adapt to the incoming SQE changes."

Sourced here: https://www.legalcheek.com/2018/05/bpp-suspends-law-degree-in-face-of-solicitor-super-exam/

https://www.legalcheek.com/2018/07/exclusive-bpp-cuts-london-staff-headcount-following-llb-suspension/

Additionally, please add:

"The BPP Liverpool campus was shut down in June 2018. Existing students were advised to continue their legal studies at the University's Manchester campus.

This can be sourced here:

https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/law/bpp-to-shut-liverpool-base/5065454.article

https://www.legalcheek.com/2018/03/exclusive-bpp-liverpool-is-closing/

Hawaiibird (talk) 10:56, 19 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Suspended Law Degree

Part of an edit requested by an editor with a conflict of interest has been implemented. [see comment below]

I am connected with BPP Law School, with a COI.

I am asking for the following to be added to the page.

"In May of 2018, the law school suspended its LLB programme to adapt to the incoming SQE changes."

Sourced here: https://www.legalcheek.com/2018/05/bpp-suspends-law-degree-in-face-of-solicitor-super-exam/

https://www.legalcheek.com/2018/07/exclusive-bpp-cuts-london-staff-headcount-following-llb-suspension/

Additionally, please add:

"The BPP Liverpool campus was shut down in June 2018. Existing students were advised to continue their legal studies at the University's Manchester campus.

This can be sourced here:

https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/law/bpp-to-shut-liverpool-base/5065454.article

https://www.legalcheek.com/2018/03/exclusive-bpp-liverpool-is-closing/

Hawaiibird (talk) 08:41, 20 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I have implemented the changes, although not with the exact wording, and used only one good-quality reference for each of the two assertions. This article was plagued with citation overkill. It was also badly written, incoherent, and in places verging on the "advertorial". I have done considerable copyediting to remedy this, but it could probably use more. Voceditenore (talk) 11:50, 20 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

COI template

I have removed {{COI}} from the article after extensive copyediting to remove the remaining "advertorial" aspects from the text. Voceditenore (talk) 12:42, 20 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Suggested merge with BPP University

I would oppose this. BPP Law School is very notable in its own right. In fact, it is far more notable (and considerably older) than BPP University. It should have a separate article. Merging the law school article into the parent university article would also make the latter very unbalanced. Voceditenore (talk) 13:20, 20 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Banned from recruiting apprentices

Part of an edit requested by an editor with a conflict of interest has been implemented. The reviewer asks that the editor with a conflict of interest go ahead and make the suggested changes pending a government source being provided (from a government web domain).

I am connected with BPP Law School, with a COI.

Please note the following links which confirms BPP University has been temporarily banned from taking on new apprentices.

Sourced to Legal Cheek. ^[1]

Also sourced to FE News. ^[2]

BBP is also no longer advertising these courses.→

Can this now be included, as being banned from recruiting for level 5 and below apprentices is entirely relevant to the page? Hawaiibird (talk) 09:22, 23 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Legal Cheek. Government confirms BPP apprenticeship suspension,Legal Cheek. Retrieved 23 February, 2019
^ FE News. DfE confirms ban on recruitment of apprentices at BPP University months after Ofsted warning,FE News. Retrieved 23 February, 2019

Reply 23-FEB-2019

The COI editor has claimed to be a student of this school, which under traditional circumstances might be classified as a COI.^[a] The COI editor here is — as a student — effectively the school's employer.^[b] A traditional COI would have the employer or employee (it doesnt matter which) promoting the other. In this case, the student-employer's desire is not to promote the school, but to highlight the school's public failures.^[c] Ultimately what the editor here wishes to add does not seem controversial, so I dont see why they require a reviewer to add it — other than they wish in some way for others to legitimize their additions to the article which they feel uncomfortable making alone. To the COI editor: Is that the case here? Because I don't see how these additions are controversial, they simply are restating what the sources say.
There shouldn't be a problem with you adding this information. It would be a COI if the University paid you, but as a student, it's the other way around — you pay the university. If you are a student, then you're paying the university for a service. The payment of your money to others for services does not create a conflict of interest in you. If it did, then no one who paid taxes to the government would be able to edit articles about the fire department or a library; No one who paid money to see a film would be able to edit that film's wikipedia article. My suggestion is that you make these edits yourself.
Please note: As this information is coming from a government decision, a government source should be used rather than the sources you've provided. Spintendo 14:07, 23 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Notes

^ The traditional conflict of interest with students editing their university Wikipedia articles ostensibly includes edits which promote the university, such as boosterism. An example of a non-traditional COI would be a disgruntled student who wishes to malign the university, although I feel that would still fall under an extreme bias and not a COI requiring an impartial editor to review.
^ A student "employs" a university and its resources by paying for the university to provide the student with an education.
^ The specific failure being highlighted here is the university's failure in getting approved apprenticeships. The university has no one to blame but itself for this failure.

Removed information

Multiple sections of information have been removed by @Veritasfidessapientia:. This includes independent media-sourced information which said user has explained for removal as "speculative". I would appreciate insight from other Editors to confirm the correct presence of the (now) re-admitted information. I will look into the correct placement of information now. PicklesInTime (talk) 14:10, 23 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Section added on student criticism of BPP during COVID-19

Hello – Over the course of this year, BPP seems to have received criticism from its students for its education delivery during the pandemic. Issues raised by students have ranged from failure to deliver printed textbooks to bias against students without law firm training contracts.

I believe this merits a section within this wiki as there have been news reports addressing the issues regularly over the past few months, and both a formal complaint by affected students and a statement from the Law Society’s Junior Lawyers Division have been issued. The added section contains accurately-sourced references from the press.

I have compiled and added the section to this wiki, and would be happy for more experienced editors to review and add to this as needed.

Thank you. HEwonk (talk) 15:06, 25 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hello - I have cleaned up the History section by removing sentences with no, or dubious, citations. Alongside adding other student issues from press reports, I have also created a subheading under the Student Criticism section to distinguish between general criticism and those received by BPP during the pandemic.

HEwonk (talk) 16:27, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Balance

Looking back over the history of this article, it would seem that in the past there was some reasonably sourced material about the history of BPP, the courses they offered, as well as ample evidence of puffery, and edits from a range of editors with conflicts of interest. However, it seems more recent edits have turned this article into a wholly negative piece, and now seems to be nothing more than a long list of issues and complaints that have arisen since 2017 (the school was founded in 1992).

Could some of the earlier material be be restored to bring balance to this article? 165.1.216.105 (talk) 16:00, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Legal Cheek. Government confirms BPP apprenticeship suspension,Legal Cheek. Retrieved 23 February, 2019

[2] FE News. DfE confirms ban on recruitment of apprentices at BPP University months after Ofsted warning,FE News. Retrieved 23 February, 2019

[3] The traditional conflict of interest with students editing their university Wikipedia articles ostensibly includes edits which promote the university, such as boosterism. An example of a non-traditional COI would be a disgruntled student who wishes to malign the university, although I feel that would still fall under an extreme bias and not a COI requiring an impartial editor to review.

[4] A student "employs" a university and its resources by paying for the university to provide the student with an education.

[5] The specific failure being highlighted here is the university's failure in getting approved apprenticeships. The university has no one to blame but itself for this failure.

[1]

[2]

[a]

[b]

[c]