Talk:Axis powers

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Axis powers article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13: 90 days

view · edit

Frequently asked questions

Q1: Why is country X included in the list of Axis countries in the infobox?

A1: Because reliable sources, cited in the article, describe it as an Axis country. If you think that a country presently included in this list should NOT be included in it, please describe why reliable sources do not support it being included here, and if possible provide sources backing up this position. Particularly in the case of Finland, this has been discussed many, many times, so please review the talk-page archive to see if you have any new points to raise on this topic.

Q2: Why is country X NOT included in the list of Axis countries included in the infobox?

A2: Only the countries for which reliable sources have been found, describing the country unambiguously as a member of the Axis, should be included. If you think a country should be added to the list, please provide reliable sources that clearly and unambiguously state that they were members of the Axis. Please note that particularly Vichy France, Iraq, Spain, the Soviet Union, and the various puppet-states of the Axis outside of the ones that are included in this list have been discussed a large number of times here, so please review the discussions before opening a new discussion to see if the point you want to make has already been discussed.

Q3: Why aren't only Tripartite Pact signatories included as Axis members in the infobox?

A3: Because this article is not about the Tripartite Pact, which has its own article. Similarly, it is also not about the Anti-Comintern Pact. Instead it is about the Axis, which reliable sources describe as having a membership different to that of the Tripartite Pact and the Anti-Comintern Pact.

Q4: Why aren't puppet states and colonies included as Axis members in the infobox?

A4: Some puppet states may be included as members of the Axis powers where there are reliable sources stating that this is what they were, however, where no source says that a country was a member of the Axis, simply having been a puppet state or colony of a member of the Axis is insufficient to make it a member of the Axis if reliable sources do not describe it as such.

Q5: Why are other states, that were not members of the Axis, discussed in the body-text of the article?

A5: States and movements that had notable relations with the Axis, for example states the leadership of which gave serious consideration to joining the Axis, should be discussed to the extent relevant. Relevance should be decided in consensus with other editors - if in doubt, please discuss on the talk page here.

Q6: Why was membership of the Axis, as listed in the infobox, decided to only include those clearly and unambiguously described as being members of the Axis in reliable sources?

A6: In a discussion on the talk page in January 2021 it was decided to remove all countries which no reliable sources clearly described as being a member of the Axis. The reasoning was that by including countries that no reliable source actually identified as Axis powers but which some editors had characterised as "Axis co-belligerents", a term with no basis in reliable sources, we were essentially engaging in original research and going outside the topic of the article, which is about the Axis powers and not about wars fought parallel to the wars fought by the Axis.

Q7: I disagree with the criteria used to determine what should be included as a member of the Axis in this article!

A7: Consensus can change, please feel free to open a discussion here about how you think the article should address the question of which states should be included as members of the Axis in this article. Please also review the prior discussions in the archive to see whether your proposed way of deciding Axis membership has already been discussed.

The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to the Balkans or Eastern Europe, which has been designated as a contentious topic.

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

Germany High‑importance

	Germany portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Germany, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Germany on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GermanyWikipedia:WikiProject GermanyTemplate:WikiProject GermanyGermany articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

International relations High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject International relations, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of International relations on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.International relationsWikipedia:WikiProject International relationsTemplate:WikiProject International relationsInternational relations articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Military history: Asian / European / German / Italian / Japanese / World War II

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Asian military history task force
	European military history task force
	German military history task force
	Italian military history task force (c. 500–present)
	Japanese military history task force
	World War II task force

Japan: Military history High‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Japan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Japan-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project, participate in relevant discussions, and see lists of open tasks. Current time in Japan: 02:49, November 15, 2024 (JST, Reiwa 6) (Refresh)JapanWikipedia:WikiProject JapanTemplate:WikiProject JapanJapan-related articles

High

This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

This article is supported by the joint Japanese military history task force.

WikiProject Japan to do list:

Peer review: None
A-class review: None

Featured content candidates –

Articles: None
Pictures: None
Lists: None

Good article nominations: Vinland Saga (TV series), Godzilla Minus One
Add requested images to articles that need them.
Pages for Deletion: Participate in Japan-related deletion discussions.
Improve and expand Japan-related stubs.
Create some requested articles.
Help translate an article from the Japanese Wikipedia into English.
Assess unassessed articles

Italy High‑importance

	Italy portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Italy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Italy on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ItalyWikipedia:WikiProject ItalyTemplate:WikiProject ItalyItaly articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Hungary High‑importance

	Hungary portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hungary, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Hungary on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HungaryWikipedia:WikiProject HungaryTemplate:WikiProject HungaryHungary articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Austria High‑importance

	Austria portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Austria, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles about Austria on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please join the project.AustriaWikipedia:WikiProject AustriaTemplate:WikiProject AustriaAustria articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Slovakia Low‑importance

	Slovakia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Slovakia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to Slovakia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SlovakiaWikipedia:WikiProject SlovakiaTemplate:WikiProject SlovakiaSlovakia articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Croatia Mid‑importance

	Croatia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Croatia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Croatia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CroatiaWikipedia:WikiProject CroatiaTemplate:WikiProject CroatiaCroatia articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Albania Mid‑importance

	Axis powers is part of the WikiProject Albania, an attempt to co-ordinate articles relating to Albania on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. If you are new to editing Wikipedia visit the welcome page so as to become familiar with the guidelines. If you would like to participate, please join the project and help with our open tasks.AlbaniaWikipedia:WikiProject AlbaniaTemplate:WikiProject AlbaniaAlbania articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Romania Mid‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Romania, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Romania-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.RomaniaWikipedia:WikiProject RomaniaTemplate:WikiProject RomaniaRomania articles

Mid

This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

To-do list:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Article requests :
- Help Romania reach at least GA-status
- Help History of Romania get WP:GOOD
- Request an article or create a missing one
Assess :
- Assess all articles tagged for this project that have not been assessed for quality
Cleanup :
- Review the Romania-related cleanup listing
- Normalize the use of "Northern Bukovina" (capitalized) and "Northern Bessarabia" (Bessarabian part of Chernivtsi Oblast) all over Wikipedia
Disambiguation :
- Disambiguate project articles and get points
Expand :
- Expand Postage stamps and postal history of Romania
Translate :
- Translate Romania-related articles from the Romanian Wikipedia
- Translate and keep in sync with the project versions in other languages: Projet:Roumanie (in French), Proiect:România (in Romanian), Проект:Румыния (in Russian)
Unreferenced : * Add more reference to FC CFR Timișoara.
Other :
- Make use in articles of the newly contributed images (about 5800!!) from the Wiki Loves Monuments Romania 2011 (WLM Romania external site)
- Review newly created Romania-related articles
- Check the articles needing expert attention or other work, and help with some of the items
- Create Awards for WikiProject Romania
- Contribute photos related to Romania at Commons:WikiProject Romania. Organize Romania related images on Commons. See also media-related tasks

Bulgaria Mid‑importance

	Bulgaria portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Bulgaria, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Bulgaria on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BulgariaWikipedia:WikiProject BulgariaTemplate:WikiProject BulgariaBulgaria articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Finland Low‑importance

	Finland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Finland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Finland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FinlandWikipedia:WikiProject FinlandTemplate:WikiProject FinlandFinland articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Thailand Low‑importance

	Thailand portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Thailand, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Thailand-related articles on Wikipedia. The WikiProject is also a part of the Counteracting systematic bias group aiming to provide a wider and more detailed coverage on countries and areas of the encyclopedia which are notably less developed than the rest. If you would like to help improve this and other Thailand-related articles, please join the project. All interested editors are welcome.ThailandWikipedia:WikiProject ThailandTemplate:WikiProject ThailandThailand articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Former countries

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Former countries, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of defunct states and territories (and their subdivisions). If you would like to participate, please join the project.Former countriesWikipedia:WikiProject Former countriesTemplate:WikiProject Former countriesformer country articles

Jewish history High‑importance

	Judaism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Jewish history, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Jewish history on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Jewish historyWikipedia:WikiProject Jewish historyTemplate:WikiProject Jewish historyJewish history-related articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Judaism High‑importance

	Judaism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Judaism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Judaism-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.JudaismWikipedia:WikiProject JudaismTemplate:WikiProject JudaismJudaism articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Map needed

It is requested that a global map or maps be included in this article to improve its quality.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 March 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Why is Iraq not listed in the infobox? They were a full-fledged member of the Axis. https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Anglo-Iraqi_War https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/1941_Iraqi_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat Ironzombie39 (talk) 00:23, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. The FAQ at the top says "Only the countries for which reliable sources have been found, describing the country unambiguously as a member of the Axis, should be included." As discussed previously, co-belligerents of the Axis are not considered members of the Axis and hence do not go in the infobox. The question of including Iraq in the infobox has also been discussed multiple times (see the archives), and consensus has also been against inclusion. Liu1126 (talk) 23:40, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

so we add Finland and croatia but not iraq?

I don't get your logic here Sanad real (talk) 03:56, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

iraq is literally blue on the map on the allies article Sanad real (talk) 01:28, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Sanad real. On Wikipedia, facts that can be challenged (which definitely includes which states were Axis powers) need to be clearly supported by reliable sources. Wikipedia, including the map on the page about the Allies, is not a reliable source.

For Iraq, there is no source saying it was ever a member of the Axis powers. If we look at what the sources say, we can see that it is not clearly considered to have been an Axis power during the few months that Rashid Ali was in power. For example, this source points out that Germany and Italy had no desire to make deals with Arab states since Italy wanted the Middle East as part of its empire and Germany saw the Arab states as a distration from its upcoming invasion of the USSR. The source also states that no formal alliance was ever concluded.

For Finland and Croatia, there are ample sources stating that they were members of the Axis powers which you can find in the article. For Iraq those sources don't appear to exist. If you are aware of a reliable source that clearly and unambiguously describes Iraq as a member of the Axis powers, please let us know. FOARP (talk) 07:40, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Issues with the map of participants in the info-box

Regarding the map of participants in the info-box, it contains inaccuracies:

The USSR is listed as having switched sides from the Axis to the Allies, which is in between complete falsehood and utter lunacy. Neither the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact nor the joint-but-time-offset German-Soviet invasion of Poland ever made the USSR a member of the Axis, especially not de jure.

Ethiopia is listed as having switched sides, but how can a colonial government (Italian East Africa) "switch sides" when it was disbanded altogether and replaced with a British military administration?

If Ethiopia is listed as having switches sides, then Italy should have certainty been included in the list as well, but it was not. The situation with the Italian Social Republic complicates the matter, but since France is already dealt with separately (on the map) in terms of Vichy France and German-occupied France, the same could be done with Italy (showing the Italian Social Republic borders at establishment in blue, and the rest of Italy in blue but with a "switched sides from the Axis to the Allies" marker).

212.243.68.210 (talk) 12:58, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ethiopia went from being an Italian colony to one that had been liberated and Ethiopia's full sovereignty was restored with the signing of the Anglo-Ethiopian Agreement in December 1944 (duing Ww2). Slatersteven (talk) 13:02, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We do not list the USSR as a member of the Axis. Slatersteven (talk) 13:03, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The map is garbage. It might well be better not to have it. FOARP (talk) 10:16, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is not the first time problems with the map have been raised. Other discussions where problems with the map have been raised include:
Talk:Axis_powers/Archive_13#inaccuracies_in_the_map

Talk:Axis_powers/Archive_12#Map

Talk:Axis_powers/Archive_12#Map_2

Talk:Axis_powers/Archive_6#The_map_from_https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c0/WWII.png/280px-WWII.png

Talk:Axis_powers/Archive_5#The_map_shows_the_Axis_powers_wrong._Finland_was_not_a_part_of_the_Axis,_as_also_the_Allied_leaders_concluded_in_Tehran

Talk:Axis_powers/Archive_5#Map_is_a_poor_descriptive_image_for_the_subject_matter

For this reason I am removing the map as a WP:BOLD move simply because it is not a good illustration for this article. FOARP (talk) 13:42, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Don't care about the map, but this article cannot have the same lead image as Tripartite Pact. It will only further conflation. Srnec (talk) 03:32, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm fine with this change. If there were a colour poster or similar then that would be even better but I'm not aware of one. PS - this looks good, but we'd need a hi-res copy, and to be sure that it's free-to-use (it probably is, but that's not good enough). FOARP (talk) 10:34, 16 August 2024 (UTC) FOARP (talk) 10:26, 16 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Only Axis powers should be listed in the infobox in an article about the Axis powers

There was an extensive discussion about why the infobox only included actual members of the Axis. It's now been changed back to its previous format without any discussion as far as I can see. This is not a Paradox game or online games forum like NationStates, we need sources to describe a country positively as having been one of the Axis powers, not whatever idea someone has just come up with on their own about what the Axis was.

The second world war is almost certainly the most written-about subject in world history. If you cannot find a source explicitly stating that a country was one of the Axis powers (or similar language) then please consider that it may not have been an Axis power, and that your idea of what the Axis powers were does not match what reliable sources say about it. It is, in fact, not easy to find reliable sources that list the members of the Axis beyond Germany, Japan, and Italy, and NONE of the sources we've reviewed so far that do try to provide exhaustive lists of Axis members include the countries that people typically want to add to the infobox - they don't include Vichy France, they don't include the USSR, they don't include Iraq, they don't include Iran, they don't include Manchuria. However, they DO typically include Bulgaria, Finland, Hungary, and Romania, and (less often) Croatia, Slovakia Thailand. You can review the sources that list Axis powers in the article, but the convenience of anyone reading this page, here's the main ones:

Facts About the American Wars, Bowman, p. 432 - This lists Albania, Bulgaria, Finland, Germany, Hungary, Italy, Japan, Romania, and Thailand. It discusses Croatia as well but is a bit ambiguous about whether it was an Axis member. It mentions Iraq but does not define it as having been a member of the Axis, but instead as a "puppet state" of the Allies. It explicitly describes Spain as having been neutral. There is no mention at all of Vichy France here.
The Library of Congress World War II Companion, Wagner, Osborne, & Reyburn, p. 39 - this defines the Axis as including Germany, Italy, Japan, Croatia, Finland, Bulgaria, Hungary, Romania, and Slovakia. Notably it does not mention Thailand. It also does not mention Iraq, Vichy France etc. as Axis countries.
Germany and the Axis Powers, DiNardo, particularly p.92-3 - this book does contain a list as such, and primarily focuses on Europe, but the following countries are explicitly described as Axis powers throughout the book: Germany, Italy, Japan, Finland, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria. It is more equivocal about Slovakia and Croatia, describing them as puppet countries - this does not mean they were not Axis powers in the view of the author, but neither confirms that they were. There is no mention of Iraq, Vichy France, and the usual suspects, in the context of describing who was part of the Axis.

I could understand someone, based on the Bowman reference, wanting to add Albania, but since this does not match what other sources say about Albania in WW2 I'm inclined not to. Similarly I could understand someone wanting to remove Thailand since only Bowman includes in their list, though other sources appear to support this (see the sources in the section about Thailand, including the Thai historical dictionary). I can even understand just limiting the Axis to Germany, Italy, and Japan since many books/articles do only talk about those countries as "the Axis". What I can't understand is constantly trying to add Iraq/Vichy/USSR/whatever without any sources at all. FOARP (talk) 09:57, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Albania was invaded and occupied, Thailand was not. Slatersteven (talk) 11:32, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Generally agree Steve, but more to the point: no other source I've seen says Albania was a member of the Axis so Bowman seems an outlier here. FOARP (talk) 10:23, 16 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 August 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

R3YBOl (talk) 22:15, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I noticed that they removed kingdom of iraq from the axis states meanwhile after the success of the iraqi coup detat in 1941 Iraq joined the axis states, Someone who deleted the article of the kingdom of iraq in this page, So I hope you guys fix it and thank you for your service Here the article for making it easy to copy and paste

Kingdom of Iraq^[a]

Do you have evidence that they joined the Axis? The Banner talk 23:03, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 23:50, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 August 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Add Oxford commas. 64.189.18.44 (talk) 15:59, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done Not clear what the request is. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. The Banner talk 16:34, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Maps

See Talk:Allies of World War II#Maps. -- Beland (talk) 07:21, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Cite error: There are <ref group=lower-alpha> tags or {{efn}} templates on this page, but the references will not show without a {{reflist|group=lower-alpha}} template or {{notelist}} template (see the help page).

[a]