Talk:Australian cricket team in India in 2022–23

Article should be split?

Shouldn't the article be split? At the moment it is covering two completely different tours. Adpete (talk) 04:01, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

As it stands there are some quite strange things, like the infobox saying "Dates 20 September 2022 – 22 March 2023", when in fact it was two differenmt tours. The lead also read clumsily because it is talking about two different tours.

So I proposed splitting it into Australian cricket team in India in 2022 and Australian cricket team in India in 2023. Adpete (talk) 05:32, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Draft articles at Draft:Australian cricket team in India in 2022 and Draft:Australian cricket team in India in 2023 (up to date for Lunch on Day 3 of Test 1, after India's first innings). Apart from any update on the first Test, I think both are ready to use if the split is approved. Adpete (talk) 07:39, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

• Comment the proposed names are incorrect, as both appear to have been in cricket year 2022-23 like NZ in Pakistan: New Zealand cricket team in Pakistan in 2022–23 (April 2023) and New Zealand cricket team in Pakistan in 2022–23 (December 2022). It does look like these two tours were announced separately T20I announcement, so a split could be an okay idea, as long as the WP:CRIC naming standards on years are adhered to. Also, those draft articles are unattributed copies of this articles, and so copyvios, and not the way to split, as it loses article history. If a split is done, then it should follow the correct process at WP:SPLIT. Joseph2302 (talk) 11:46, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
  • Personally I don't like the NZ/Pak names above (unnecessarily wordy), but I'm happy to go with consensus. As for history, it's a simple thing to create new blank articles, cut / paste the drafts into them, and add a comment as per point 4 of WP:PROPERSPLIT. Adpete (talk) 12:04, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
    • You didn't do the attribution sections required there. Also, no point creating drafts until there is consensus to split anyway. The Pakistan/NZ articles are consistent with all WP:CRIC] articles, your proposal is not. WP:IDONTLIKEIT is irrelevant. Joseph2302 (talk) 12:15, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
      • Sorry, the lack of edit summaries was a mistake. I've restored Draft:Australian cricket team in India in 2022 as an example, with proper edit summary this time, as it is unlikely to change in short term. It can be renamed appropriately if the consensus is to do so. I didn't bother redoing the other, as it will change (hence the strikeout above). Adpete (talk) 00:14, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

This isn't attracting any other discussion. Given your in-principle support, and the precedent of the NZ/Pak series, should I treat this as uncontroversial, and proceed? I think it would be good to do before the 2nd test, which starts on the 17th. If we follow your suggestion for names, it will be Australian cricket team in India in 2022–23 (September 2022) and Australian cricket team in India in 2022–23 (February–March 2023). I suggest the following steps:

1. Create Australian cricket team in India in 2022–23 (September 2022) for all the T20I material (which might be as simple as a copy of the one I've already drafted, once I check nothing has changed in the days since I made the draft).
2. Move the current article to Australian cricket team in India in 2022–23 (February–March 2023).
3. The move will leave a redirect at Australian cricket team in India in 2022–23, so turn that into a dab page, i.e. just like New Zealand cricket team in Pakistan in 2022–23.
4. Chop out all the T20I references from the moved article.

I am happy to do it. Adpete (talk) 06:24, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

• I oppose this being done without further discussion and clear consensus, as there is no deadline to do it, and it needs a clear consensus to make the change. I will notify the cricket Wikiproject about this, but this should not be done unilaterally. I personally don't strongly support or oppose it, but on the other hand, there's been almost no source-based discussion on whether this should be done or not. It is the responsibility of the person nominating this for splitting to demonstrate that the split is correct, and you have provided zero sources or actual content on why it is definitely two series. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:09, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

  Let's see:

  • the fact that they're separate tours
  • the precedent of the NZ / Pakistan articles
  • The two external links in the current article:
    • "Australia tour of India 2022" - Cricinfo [1]
    • "Australia tour of India 2022/23" - Cricinfo [2]
  • Cricket Australia does not include the T20Is on their page on the current tour: [3]

  Adpete (talk) 09:54, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

• Support. They're separate series. One was a warm-up for the World T20, the other is a Test and ODI series. ESPNcricinfo lists them as separate series. StickyWicket (talk) 22:12, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

• Support per StickyWicket. extra999 (talk) 00:19, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

• Support, seems like a common sense decision. OliveYouBean (talk) 02:48, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
• Support as above, but shouldn't it be Australian cricket team in India in 2022? As September falls into that "season" rather than the 22/23 season that the ICC etc... uses? I'd suggest the NZ one does the same sort of thing - the April tour is in 2023 only isn't it? Dabs will presumably be needed. This, fwiw, is one thing Lugnuts was bloody good at sorting out. Blue Square Thing (talk) 13:33, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

• We have the T20 matches listed in International cricket in 2022–23. That article says that 2022-23 covers the period "September 2022 to April 2023", although International cricket in 2022 says it covers the period "May 2022 to September 2022" i.e. this looks like it could be in either. Joseph2302 (talk) 13:45, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

• OK then, although in general terms I think I'd prefer 22 - would help distinguish the article titles slightly better as well imo. Blue Square Thing (talk) 18:22, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

• 22 seems easier, as it doesn't need a disambiguation of the current article, so maybe we can use that and if people object in future, then they can start a RM then. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:29, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

• I have been doing a bit of digging through discussion archives since first raising this, trying to work out how why Wikipedia defines seasons the way it does, and the most convincing argument I've seen is that we should do seasons the same way Wisden does, because Wisden is as Reliable a source as there is for cricket conventions. Wisden puts the T20Is in 2022 and the current series 2022-2023,[4] so I agree we should do that. Adpete (talk) 04:03, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Regarding "seasons", there is no clear-cut divide between e.g. 2022 and 2022-23. May and September are very much considered part of the single year season in most of Europe (e.g. the County Championship runs in these months, sometimes even April and October); but May/September are also in the multi-years season in place like Australia and NZ. Generally we allow some overlap and go with where it fits in the host nation's domestic season. If this is split, and there is certainly a long enough gap between the tours to consider doing so, I would favour the existing precedent of Australian cricket team in India in 2022-23 (September 2022) and Australian cricket team in India in 2022-23 (February 2022). Worth noting that English cricket team in Pakistan in 2022–23 was also split into two parts, with T20s in September before the World Cup and Tests after in December. I don't feel that should be split. Bs1jac (talk) 12:46, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

I concur with you on the New Zealand Pakistan serie part. The April series between the two teams should be a part of 2023 season, as April in Pakistani summer and not winter season. Thanks,Vikram Maingi (talk) 16:57, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose because while Australia is indeed touring twice, they're still playing matches of different formats in the same season. Something similar happened before in English cricket team in the West Indies in 2021–22, when England also toured the West Indies two separate times but played matches of separate (non-overlapping) formats. While both of the Pakistan-New Zealand series fall in the same season, they have a format overlap as both tours contain separate ODI series. Nothing of that sort is happening here, so this can be counted as an all-format tour. মাশ্‌ফী※Mashfi (ETP) 13:34, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

English cricket team in the West Indies in 2021–22 was listed as a single series by both Wisden and ESPNcricinfo. But these two tours are separate series according to both Wisden and ESPNcricinfo. Is there any reliable source which supports calling this a single tour or series? Adpete (talk) 02:41, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

CricketArchive lists it as one single series, as it looks like মাশ্‌ফী※Mashfi (ETP) 09:27, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

OK that is one example, but think it is outweighed by more reliable sources like the ACB and Wisden, and probably ESPNcricinfo carries more weight too. Adpete (talk) 02:53, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

• Support: The article should be split into two parts, just like New Zealand cricket team in Pakistan 2022–23. It was two separate bilateral series. Jitendra Khuntia (talk) 08:48, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

  There are 2 different articles for New Zealand cricket team in Pakistan as both the series are having 2 different ODI series and teams are contesting for 2 different trophies of the same format. Vikram Maingi (talk) 04:59, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

And these India-Australia games are also different series for different trophies. Adpete (talk) 02:53, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose because while Australia is playing matches of different formats in the same season. With this rationale many more series should be split, with I do not supprt, like England in Pakistan in 2022-23, South Africa in India in 2019–20 and Eng in West Indies in 2021-22. As long teams are not playing again in any format, in which they have already competed before in the same season, we should continue with updating the same page. Thanks, Vikram Maingi (talk) 05:09, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
  • I think that suggestion is a bit inconsistent. The pages should either be on tours, or on seasons. If you are going to put all matches in a single season in the same article, then we should be consistent, and the Pakistan-NZ 2022-2023 articles should be merged. And that would be very easy to do; just a different section for each series. But I think it is better to have articles based on tours or series rather than seasons, because I think for most readers that is a more natural grouping. And that seems to be where the consensus of replies is; especially since we seem to have Wisden doing the same thing. Adpete (talk) 02:53, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

    Hi Adpete, Pak-NZ series should not be merged as in both the series the two nations are competing for a different trophy in T20I format. I mean if both (Pak vs. NZ) the series are merged then the international calendar will not reflect two different T20I trophies for which they are completing.

    I hope I am able to convey my point. Thanks, Vikram Maingi (talk) 08:53, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

• Tentative Support due to the large gap between the two legs. If this is split, and there is certainly a long enough gap between the tours to consider doing so, I would favour the existing precedent of Australian cricket team in India in 2022-23 (September 2022) and Australian cricket team in India in 2022-23 (February 2023). Worth noting that English cricket team in Pakistan in 2022–23 was also split into two 'tours', with T20s in September before the World Cup and Tests after in December. I don't feel that should be split though. Cricinfo's arbitrary assignment of 'seasons' shouldn't overrule consistency on Wiki. As the Indian domestic season spans across years (i.e. 2022-23, not 2022 and 2023) I don't think it would be right to call them "in 2022" and "in 2023" Bs1jac (talk) 13:04, 22 March 2023 (UTC)