Talk:Athletic Bilbao signing policy

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A fact from Athletic Bilbao signing policy appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 14 October 2016 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that since 1912, Spanish association football club Athletic Bilbao only fields players with ancestry from the Basque Country?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2016/October. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Athletic Bilbao signing policy.

Wikipedia

Of course discrimination

Of course it's discriminatory. If another team in Spain only recruited non-Basque players, there'd be holy hell to pay for it. They can't have their cake and eat it too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8805:5800:F500:9C9D:6AB3:CBF8:A317 (talk) 02:34, 14 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Of course, it is interesting that there is an apparent inconsistency with regard to discrimination in football. Rangers get investigated for not signing openly Catholic players yet selection based on regional origin here has passed by without comment from officials. Though this comparison cannot be placed in the article because no RS has covered it. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 07:16, 14 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Basque Ancestry

I made an edition that was undone a month ago about the "Basque ancestry" criterion for Athletic signability.

I don't understand the "this later extended to at least one Basque parent, and further into great-grandparents being sufficient to fulfill the policy". In fact, I understand it's not accurate: the eligibility , as it's understood all around Bilbao, is not linked to "ancestry" but just to two criteria: having born in a Basque province or having been developed as a football player in a Basque youth team.

The page's original sentence is linked to an article (http://www.thenational.ae/sport/primera-liga/for-david-moyes-in-basque-derby-identity-and-sovreignty-and-points-all-part-of-the-pressure) that doesn't claim that. In fact, the only data about that in that article is about Laporte, and it says "Foreign internationals do and have represented Athletic, but all of them have links to the region, such as Aymeric Laporte, the France international defender, who grew up in Athletic’s youth system and traces a Basque lineage through his great-grandparents". And Laporte's "signability" comes from the part "grew up in Athletic's youth system", which was the main point of my edition.

I understand that I didn't add any source to support my edition. I'd like to add some. Are they enough to support the idea of having played in the Basque youth clubs, and not the ancestry, is the key to play in the club? Thank you for your help!

http://www.bizkaiatalent.eus/en/pais-vasco-te-espera/conocenos/athletic-bilbao-futbol/ "Its special philosophy in which only players that come from its own ranks and those trained in Basque clubs can play makes this union even stronger"

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/athletic-bilbao-basque-club-spirit-rafael-nadal-continue-amaze-1555589 "Only players native to the Basque Country or made in local academies are eligible to play."

http://www.blogseitb.us/basqueboise/2015/07/15/athletic-de-bilbao-sticks-to-its-basque-only-policy-an-idaho-statesman-article-by-michael-lycklama/ "Players are considered Basque if they were born in the Basque country or if the team developed them in its envied youth system"

If you understand these sources are enough (I have tried to stick to local -Basque- sources) I'll re-edit the page, but I prefer to ask first, because I'd like not to start any kind of edit war.

Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eleder (talk • contribs) 00:17, 30 December 2016 (UTC) _____________________[reply]

Totally agree with this, you may notice I edited your original comments to clarify 'grown', this term isn't particularly clear so I changed it to reflect what you were wishing to put across - that players who learned to play in Basque clubs are eligible. You added it in 2 sections and I edited in both, 1 has now been undone by the page creator but the other remains. Not sure why this is.

As you have said (and provided examples) there are plenty of sources to show that it is not ethnicity but club of origin which is the most important factor. It would be helpful if there was a player who Athletic had signed who demonstrated this (e.g born in Romania, not Basque by blood, lived in Santander and developed at Alaves - the only link is his Basque club of origin). We know that David Lopez falls into this category but others may think he is Basque by family, or that Logroño counts as Basque, it is not immediately obvious that he is not 'ethnically' Basque.

The 'developed at Basque club' comments should definitely be in the article. I would add it back in (not revert but add again) and use one of your sources above as a ref (in the opening paragraph I have already ref'd the official club website which has the phrase on it).Crowsus (talk) 18:08, 2 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Wording for lead

Hi @The C of E:, just seeking your input on how to word the lead. As you correctly state, there have been instances of Basque heritage being used as the reason for bringing players to the club (in addition to Bermejo and Schulze there was also Zabala, Schiavella, and Ander Dulce - not sure those are all on the article at present, got refs for them on my phone) but it must be said these are sufficiently rare to warrant local media coverage on each occasion, and they were all low-profile youth players. There's been no major signing of a professional (Spanish or foreign) based on heritage alone and have sometimes publicly denied it would be 'possible' when asked by the press - but that's not to say they wouldn't ever simply go back on that if they decided they wanted to. So it would be a misleading statement IMO to include "or Basque heritage" on its own in the lead without qualification, but it would also be false to imply that they stick rigidly to their own rules at all times when clearly they bend and even ignore them as it suits.

Based on the above, I would suggest an addition along the lines of "...the club will only sign players who were born in the Basque Country or who learned their football skills at a Basque club. On occasion, younger players have also been brought in based on their heritage in the region, but no experienced professionals have been signed due to Basque ancestry alone." But hopefully you can find a way to phrase it better, fully agree the wording of my attempt earlier could have been improved. Crowsus (talk) 23:05, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That sounds good to me @Crowsus: but I would probably say "youth" rather than "younger" because it makes more sense in a football context. I'd probably also change "experienced professionals" to "senior players" or "first team players" for the same reason. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 07:59, 25 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Paradox

Something should be said about the paradox that, at certain periods (the 1980s), nationalist darlings Real and Athletic were the backbone of the Spanish national football team (including nationalists like Iribar), since the rest of Spanish teams featured foreign stars. --Error (talk) 13:06, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]