Talk:At Newport 1960

Note to self

I'm temporarily dumping a few notes/sources here to add later (or not). Ignore them, or feel free to use them:

• "one of the greatest live albums of all time."
• Muddy Waters best album.
• "[Otis Spann's] big break came after the Muddy Waters Live at Newport LP from 1960, where his stunning boogies and one lead vocal track by him showed his potential as a recording artist."
• Drummer, Roger Earle says: "Jerry Lee Lewis's first album was already worn out. Chuck Berry and Little Richard didn't leave the turntable. But when I first heard Muddy's album, the way I heard music changed forever. I've been listening to this record for 40 years and never get tired of it."

-MrFizyx 19:45, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

References

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Double bass

I note two bass players listed- Andrew Stevenson and Andrew Stephenson. Is this correct, or some strange typo on different pressings of the album? Grutness...wha? 10:34, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Just cancelled the "second" bass player and corrected his name to "Stephens" StefanWirz (talk) 15:36, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Chronologie of "descendants" of Chess LPS/LP 1449

Don't know if that's of interest (or even worth an external link in the article), but I just added a few "descendants" of Chess LPS/LP 1449 to my Pat Hare discography StefanWirz (talk) 12:59, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:At Newport 1960/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Basilisk4u (talk · contribs) 05:29, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Hey! I am going to review this article. Basilisk4u (talk) 05:29, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Review

• The first thing that I notice about the article is there are very few citations: in the first three paragraphs of the "History, recording, and release" section, there are only two citations, with one of the paragraphs completely unsourced. This will need to be fixed before I can review the article further. I will give you seven days to add more citations, and then I will review it in more depth. Good luck!

how about now?--♫GoP♫_T^C_N 17:09, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

• Hi! I am soooo sorry for the delay. Overall, I think this article is really interesting, but it has a little work to do. The sourcing is pretty good now, but I would like to see some more sources for the dances he did in the third paragraph of History, recording, and release. Here are some prose issues I found:
  • No problem! :)

Lead

• "Water's powerful performances across Europe in the 50s and at Newport helped popularize blues to broader audience, especially to whites." - "powerful" seems a bit non-NPOV
  • Removed
• "The instrumental switch from semi-acoustic guitar to electric guitar on this concert was influential for later music" ---> "during this concert"
  • Done

History, recording, and release

• "After his debut album The Best of Muddy Waters, a greatest hits collection released in 1958, and Sings Big Bill Broonzy, a collection of covers of songs by blues musician Big Bill Broonzy" --> "After releasing his debut album The Best of Muddy Waters 1958), a greatest hits collection, and Sings Big Bill Broonzy (1960), a collection of covers of songs by blues musician Big Bill Broonzy..."
  • Done
• "increazingly" --> increasingly
  • Done
• "Occassionally there were uproars by about 300 drunken hipsters during Charles' performance." What did the hipsters do? I am intrigued. Go further in depth. Also "Occassionally" should be "Occasionally"
  • Done the last. I added a little bit more information. The hipsters attacked the policemen, this resulted to heavy riots.
• "When Waters and his band arrived on the scheduled day, they intended to drive back on the next day, until driver James Cotton saw John Lee Hooker standing at a corner. Cotton said he should get into his car and got the musicians out of harm's way." This is a bit strange. I do not see the connection between the two sentences.
  • I reworded the sencentences and added more information--♫GoP♫_T^C_N 17:07, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Final concerns

Wow, thanks for your fast response! The only problem I have now is that the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs of "History, recording, and release" have a lot of details with no inline citations. Basilisk4u (talk) 19:23, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

References at the end of those paragraphs are the sources.--♫GoP♫_T^C_N 13:10, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

That works. I think it would be good to add some "ref name"s in the middle of the paragraph, but I think that is just my personal preference. I will pass the article now. Congrats! Basilisk4u (talk) 19:26, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Waters' guitar

After looking through several sources (Can't Be Satisfied The Life and Times of Muddy Waters by Robert Gordon, Allmusic, Rolling Stone, CD liner notes, etc.), I couldn't find any reference to support the statements "The instrumental switch from semi-acoustic guitar to electric guitar during this concert was influential for later music, helping to create an electric blues sound and transforming rock and roll into hard rock." or "Waters' switch on this album from semi-acoustic guitar to electric guitar was influential for later music, and helped create an electric blues sound and transform rock and roll into hard rock. Many future musicians and bands, such as The Rolling Stones, Jimi Hendrix, AC/DC and Led Zeppelin, were influenced by his electric sound and used this and his greatest hits album as templates to create a hard rock sound." Waters had been playing electric guitars since the late 1940s (Gordon p. 79) and solid-body electric guitars since at least 1954 (photo Chess box p. 5) and although he was very influential, none of these sources indicate that Waters' guitar playing on At Newport 1960 was a watershed event. The only mention of guitar on the album (other than that Waters played a Telecaster) is by Gordon: "Pat Hare's guitar sound was the envy of all the young rockers." (p. 169). Perhaps the album cover photo is the source of confusion. So these statements have been removed until someone can find a reliable source. -Ojorojo (talk) 17:20, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

The information is clearly avalaible in the Smith ref, pages 15-17--♫GoP♫_T^C_N 20:10, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Nothing in Smith's article indicates that Waters switched guitars for or during this concert. Smith's sentence "Muddy's status as the man who moved acoustic blues forward into electric territory was solidified with his July 3, 1960, performance ..." (p. 16) is addressing Waters' career, not that he switched from acoustic to electric for or during this particular performance. Smith acknowledges that Waters was "soon favoring electric guitar over acoustic" after he moved to Chicago in the 1940s (p. 16). To say that this occurred At Newport 1960 is simply wrong (read Gordon's biography, etc.) -Ojorojo (talk) 15:48, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Again, read the Smith book. You removed the following:

• possibly the first rock - the book: "essentially the first rock band"
• "Many future musicians and bands, such as The Rolling Stones, Jimi Hendrix, AC/DC and Led Zeppelin, were influenced by his electric sound and used this and his greatest hits album as templates to create a hard rock sound. At Newport 1960 is one of the first blues live albums.[2]" - this is definetely correct, read the same page. You are right, but you deleted correct information.--♫GoP♫_T^C_N 19:39, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Better without the guitar bit. Smith's "first rock band" is mentioned in the context of "Waters' ensemble would be the first electric blues band (essentially the first rock band)" or the "classic" Waters' band that solidified 1950–51 with Waters, Jimmy Rogers, Little Walter, Otis Spann, and Elgin Evans (Gordon p. 107–108). By At Newport 1960, only Waters' and Spann remained, so to link his later band consisting of different players to the "first electric blues band/first rock band" is a stretch. Regardless, this is a fringe claim and should be treated as such. -Ojorojo (talk)

Ok. You have that Gordon book; can you tell me on which page the introduction begins? And can you tell me which version you have, because I was unable to find the aforementioned phrases.--♫GoP♫_T^C_N 16:32, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Can you say on which page starts the introduction on your book?--♫GoP♫_T^C_N 16:34, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Little, Brown (US) 2002 first edition (hardcover) ISBN 0-316-32849-9, Foreword p. xi, Introduction p. xiii. -Ojorojo (talk) 17:03, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. I have a different version, so page 169 is for me 198. Can you tell me if you have books about the history of Chess? I intend to nominate Folk Singer at GAN, I have a draft in my sandbox, but I need more information about the background and the reception. I would be glad if you help me to get the article to GA status :). Regards.--♫GoP♫_T^C_N 11:52, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Also, have you Fahey's Charley Patton? That would be excellent. Regards.--♫GoP♫_T^C_N 16:22, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

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