Talk:Assassination of Spencer Perceval

John Bellingham

I was wondering if the first 2 sentences of the John Bellingham section would be better placed at the end of the previous section? And: "Mary had meanwhile returned to England with her children, eventually settling in Liverpool where she set up a millinery business with a friend, Mary Stevens." According to the source, Mary returned with one child and pregnant with the second, who was born after her arrival in Liverpool ("Heavily pregnant with their second child, she had been allowed to leave Russia with the young James...", page 111. Southdevonian (talk) 10:29, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay in responding. These are both excellent points, and I have adjustrd the text in accordance with them. Brianboulton (talk) 23:25, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Reported prediction?

I recall reading in the early 1980s in a newspaper Q&A page (either Daily Mirror or Mail) an account of a premonitory dream an Englishman had about the assassination that was subsequently reported to the authorities. It was remarkably accurate in that the clothes of the victim and perpetrator (whose waistcoat, as Bellingham wore that day, was yellow) as described in the dream of a man being shot dead with a pistol matched what was worn by Perceval and Bellingham at the murder, and this was a pre-camera era when (usually unillustrated) newspaper reports were all that passed for the mass media then. I wonder if users with access to literature on the assassination have come across this? What my memory lacks clarity on is who reported it, to which authorities, and whether the report was received early, or too late, to help Perceval or Bellingham. I have added to this article lifted details from Wikipedia articles on Perceval and Bellingham and details of the crime scene near which a plaque was unveiled in 2012.Cloptonson (talk) 11:39, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

The story was published in Philip Treherne's 1909 biography of Spencer Perceval. Apparently a John Williams of Scorier House, Cornwall, said (in an account written after the assassination) that on about the 2nd or 3rd of May 1812 he had dreamt that he was in the lobby of the House of Commons: "A small man dressed in a blue coat and a white waistcoat entered, and immediately I saw a person, who I had observed in the first instance dressed in a snuff-coloured coat and yellow metal buttons, take a pistol from under his coat and present it at the little man above mentioned. The pistol was discharged... Upon waking I told the particulars to my wife. She treated the matter lightly, and desired me to go to sleep, saying it was only a dream." Williams goes on to relate how he wondered if he should go to London to warn someone, but some friends dissuaded him, saying he might be exposed to "contempt or vexation". Southdevonian (talk) 17:28, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for enlightening me. I withdraw the comment about Bellingham's waistcoat - case of memory plays tricks! It appears from his home address that Williams may have been an at least middle-class person who had previously visited Parliament if not sat in it (as did so many gentry of his day).Cloptonson (talk) 14:57, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Looks like he must be the John Williams the 3rd mentioned in the article on Scorrier House. He said at the beginning of his account that he was managing mines. Southdevonian (talk) 12:58, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

And there is mention of the dream in this article Williams family of Caerhays and Burncoose. Southdevonian (talk) 13:07, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

Having read the latter article, and seeing it has a citation, I have mentioned a summary detail of the dream in the Aftermath section of this article.Cloptonson (talk) 20:54, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Inquest venue

This article names the Downing Street public house where the inquest was held as the Cat and Fiddle, but in the Wikipedia biography of Perceval, it is named the Cat and Bagpipes, cited to D. Grey's book Spencer Perceval; the evangelical prime minister(1963). Which name is correct? (Is the pub extant?)Cloptonson (talk) 15:07, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

The pub on Downing Street is Cat and Bagpipes according to this article [1] and other on-line sources. I can't find any reference to it as the Cat and Fiddle, although someone writing near the time says that the Cat and Bagpipes was also called the Crown and Cushion (which may explain why the London Metropolitan Archives say the inquest was held at the Rose and Crown, Downing Street). Southdevonian (talk) 13:16, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

Trial

I have just replaced a recently-added lengthy verbatim record of Bellingham's formal statement to the court with a brief paraphrase of his words. Long quotes of this kind are unnecessary in a summary encyclopaedia article, and would extend it to impossible lengths if adopted as a general practice. Brianboulton (talk) 20:15, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

Irrelevant matter?

Considering that this article's title is "Assassination of Spencer Percival", it seems to spend a lot of time/words on matters that really aren't important to the assassination, such as surprisingly detailed information about Percival's early life, which would be more appropriate in the general biographical article about Percival. It is really germane to the assassination that he and his wife eloped on her 21st birthday or that they had six sons and six daughters? This is what {{main article|Spencer Percival}} is for. --Piledhigheranddeeper (talk) 20:00, 11 May 2022 (UTC)